Used Horvat trade as a comparable.
1. Mid-1st rounder: FLA 1st
2. Top prospect: Barron
3. Young Roster Player: 2nd Rounder swap + Gurianov (Approx Beauviller Value)
Since no 2 trades are ever identical, it was hard to match these trades up honestly (other than the 1st which will likely be beside each other). Raty is a high-end prospect with top 6 potential/middle 6 floor. Barron is a top 4 potential with bottom pair floor. However, Barron has NHL success (albeit extremely sheltered) which is something Raty doesn't have. Therefore, the value is a bit skewed in that category, but I made up for it in the next point. I would be surprised if Gurianov is qualified by MTL or isn't traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick. The jets have space, and I wouldn't mind taking him on as a project. So for arguments sake, lets put his value as a mid 3rd. The MTL 2nd will be a high 2nd (34 if I remember correctly). From recent trades, the value to move up to that place from a mid 2nd is a 3rd. And Beuviller is worth a high 2nd on his own in my opinion. So taking the discrepancy between Raty and Barron, I think the additional 2nd on the jets end balances it out. Sorry if that made no sense lol. English was not my friend clearly. Basically this is what time thinking:
High 2nd, Barron, Gurianov = Beauvillier, Raty, mid 2nd
Which is fair IMO.
What I don't wanna hear is one-sentence comments from MTL fans saying they will just wait a year. Might be true, but its worth exploring what it would take to actually acquire Dubois. All other comments are welcome, even ones debating the values I put up in the trades!
With so many picks, id personally be up for some draft floor "hooliganery". I really like David Reinbacher and think he would fit well long term with the jets. Therefore, I'd make a move for him if he's still on the board at 11/12. Something like the FLA and Boston 1st for the 11/12 oa and a mid-late 2nd.
With the jets own 1st, id target Matthew Wood or Daniil But. Looks like they might be solid powerforwards, which is something the jets could use long term.
As a side note, I think jets fans should be prepared for a heinola breakout season if the jets move schmidt. The kid looks great defensively, which was arguably the main reason he was still in the A.
Conditional 2nd: Highest of Jets 2nd rounders (probably a mid round pick).
Used Horvat trade as a comparable.
1. Mid-1st rounder: FLA 1st
2. Top prospect: Barron
3. Young Roster Player: 2nd Rounder swap + Gurianov (Approx Beauviller Value)
Before commenting, please read what I wrote in the discussion. Don't be that guy.
Note: I'm not married to having barron as the prospect coming back as the jets likely wont be using whatever prospect they get back for a while. I just want barron back because it would be a brotherly reunion and the jets could use the RD depth.
Habs gm without the pressures of Montreal, I would just gamble on keep building and possibly add benson, danielson, and bjarnson, or smith/Moore and wood. Couple interesting spots to be picking and someone rather interesting to be found at both spots. A lot depends on who is there for that second pick, if that board is picked apart at that point, then possibly make the move, but if there’s basically a Suzuki 2.0 sitting there in danielson I probably just take the elc over moving for Dubois. Even wood would definitely fill a need, not sure on some of the other names that would move the line either way for me.
I agree, but I also see the need for MTL to get a power forward in the top 6. In fact, i wouldn't put any money on that group to go far without it. Frankly, its too small and will get bullied in the playoffs. They need a guy like dubois. Also, guys like dubois are rare, and as he grows, im confident he will become the type of guy who dominates in every facet of the game. Wish he would stay in the Peg
Pionk had a 25-point rookie season and was playing top-pairing unsheltered mins in NY before the trade. In what world would beck = Pionk? And the 2019 draft was no slouch either so not a great argument.
Pionk = Beck + the early 2nd in my opinion, especially if you look at what some young proven RD have gone for recently like Romanov or even Lundkvist (unproven). You give pionk way less value than he's worth
I never said Pionk = Beck. When looking at a trade comparable, you don't have to replace every piece with another piece of equal value. I agree Pionk is worth more than Beck, but the 2023 17th pick is worth more than the 2019 20th because the 2023 draft is deeper. It's the best draft since 2015. So yeah, i think 2023 17th + Beck = 2019 20th + Pionk.
Tbh, don't see Dvorak as someone I want. Doesnt really have a place on the roster. Would probably end up on the 4th line anyway, in which case Gurianov is cheaper and has more potential. I wanna take a flier on him.
Bones would never play Gurianov, he benched him in Dallas yet every time Dallas played the Jets when Bowness was the Stars coach Gurianov was a Jet killer... lol 😆
Reading over my original comment, I see now that some edginess crept into it, and I want to commend you for not sinking to the bait -- I think you replied with good grace. My asperity comes from watching my Kings getting demolished by the Oilers while I'm here on CF.
LOL. I respect u as an old CF member and we've had some good discussions in the past. I knew what you were saying and agreed with you. As a Canadian, I cant in good conscience console u, but I wont so go oilers. (Wait, did I just...hehe)
I never said Pionk = Beck. When looking at a trade comparable, you don't have to replace every piece with another piece of equal value. I agree Pionk is worth more than Beck, but the 2023 17th pick is worth more than the 2019 20th because the 2023 draft is deeper. It's the best draft since 2015. So yeah, i think 2023 17th + Beck = 2019 20th + Pionk.
Bones would never play Gurianov, he benched him in Dallas yet every time Dallas played the Jets when Bowness was coach Gurianov was a Jet killer... lol 😆
The benching got worse when bowness was gone. Lets also keep in mind gurianov got a chance under bowness, something he didn't get before. Bowness routinely benches people anyway. Every jet in the top 9 has gotten benched this year (except for lowry)
LOL. I respect u as an old CF member and we've had some good discussions in the past. I knew what you were saying and agreed with you. As a Canadian, I cant in good conscience console u, but I wont so go oilers. (Wait, did I just...hehe)
The sad fact is, two pucks went in off our own players and one hit an Oiler in the mouth and dropped into the goal, and all that taking those away would have done is make this game closer. Although we twice came back within one goal in the first period, I never felt that we were in danger of winning this game except by a similar fluke. Since the twenty-minute mark of Game Four, we haven't belonged on the same ice with these guys -- it's that simple. We were competitive until then, but someone switched on a light and we melted like vampires.
I agree, but I also see the need for MTL to get a power forward in the top 6. In fact, i wouldn't put any money on that group to go far without it. Frankly, its too small and will get bullied in the playoffs. They need a guy like dubois. Also, guys like dubois are rare, and as he grows, im confident he will become the type of guy who dominates in every facet of the game. Wish he would stay in the Peg
Agreed a happy hungry dubois would be ideal to add or keep, jets need to figure out 3 things this summer and they all effect each other, basically if they are extending helly and or scheifele, they can gamble on dubois to the deadline. If they move dubois they can extend one or both or trade one or both. To get to another round in the playoffs I think they need to sell and bottom out and draft their way back. Helly or Dubois at the draft and scheifele at the deadline and try to shine up some of the other guys to keep adding picks over next few drafts. Just want to be not stuck at the bubble mode and hopefully have some runs at the cup in the near future.
Barron is more valuable to Montreal than you account for in this trade. If Winnipeg wants him badly enough to drop the 1st, there might be a conversation to be had. Unlikely from either side.
Beauvilier's value is skewed by a short productive stint after the trade. Before that trade to Vancouver he had very little value if any at all. That hasn't changed much with a short sample of games.
Gurianov isn't a comparable because he offsets no cap. Montreal can simply choose not to qualify him if they want to unload him. Dvorak is the closest to Beauvilier on the Habs, but they have no real need to include him.
In order to make it comparable you'd have to take somebody Montreal wants to unload, which leaves Hoffman.
Nah, i'd just replace Barron with another prospect. I'd much rather have the 1st. Guys like Barron can be drafted much later. Beauvillier still had value. If guys like Dadonov, buchnevich, and namestnikov had value at the tdl, beau did too. I'd even make the argument that he could net a mid 2nd. I didn't really give gurianov much value as the roster piece if u take another look. Hes more a throw in. I didn't include a roster move because the MTL roster doesn't really have much like the isles and they don't need the cap space. And id highly doubt anyone takes hoffman. I took the comparable as more a value than a piece for that part.
The sad fact is, two pucks went in off our own players and one hit an Oiler in the mouth and dropped into the goal, and all that taking those away would have done is make this game closer. Although we twice came back within one goal in the first period, I never felt that we were in danger of winning this game except by a similar fluke. Since the twenty-minute mark of Game Four, we haven't belonged on the same ice with these guys -- it's that simple. We were competitive until then, but someone switched on a light and we melted like vampires.
Yeah, the oilers stepped it up to a gear I don't think the kings can match. That said, the playoffs are about bounces sometimes. A bounce here, a bounce there and you never know. After the jets lost scheifele last night, they looked done. They tried, but they cant match that team without hellebuyck playing like his usual vezina self when their number 1 (Norris caliber) d-man and 1C are hurt. Doesnt help that ehelrs and perfetti are hurt too. Dubois and connor are also invisible most of the time. When lowry is leading your best line, you have problems in the scoring dept.
Agreed a happy hungry dubois would be ideal to add or keep, jets need to figure out 3 things this summer and they all effect each other, basically if they are extending helly and or scheifele, they can gamble on dubois to the deadline. If they move dubois they can extend one or both or trade one or both. To get to another round in the playoffs I think they need to sell and bottom out and draft their way back. Helly or Dubois at the draft and scheifele at the deadline and try to shine up some of the other guys to keep adding picks over next few drafts. Just want to be not stuck at the bubble mode and hopefully have some runs at the cup in the near future.
They have to trade Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebyuck this summer or at TDL if they won't extend.
Get a 1st + good prospect for each and tank for a top 10 pick at the 2024 and 2025 draft. That's 8 good prospects you're adding over 2 years.
By the start of the 26/27 season, WPG could have many good young players joining the team and build something strong.
Nah, i'd just replace Barron with another prospect. I'd much rather have the 1st. Guys like Barron can be drafted much later. Beauvillier still had value. If guys like Dadonov, buchnevich, and namestnikov had value at the tdl, beau did too. I'd even make the argument that he could net a mid 2nd. I didn't really give gurianov much value as the roster piece if u take another look. Hes more a throw in. I didn't include a roster move because the MTL roster doesn't really have much like the isles and they don't need the cap space. And id highly doubt anyone takes hoffman. I took the comparable as more a value than a piece for that part.
The only other MTL prospect making sense for WPG would be Beck. But even so, MTL isn't adding the 17th + 34th pick. 17th should be enough.
Agreed a happy hungry dubois would be ideal to add or keep, jets need to figure out 3 things this summer and they all effect each other, basically if they are extending helly and or scheifele, they can gamble on dubois to the deadline. If they move dubois they can extend one or both or trade one or both. To get to another round in the playoffs I think they need to sell and bottom out and draft their way back. Helly or Dubois at the draft and scheifele at the deadline and try to shine up some of the other guys to keep adding picks over next few drafts. Just want to be not stuck at the bubble mode and hopefully have some runs at the cup in the near future.
You may not agree with me, but I'd keep Scheifele if i could. When engaged, scheifele looks like a one man team. And bowness is really starting to get to him. I think there's certain things he wants to do and knows will make him successful, and he doesn't like it when someone asks him to abandon that. Which makes sense to some extent. The goal should be to find the middle ground with scheifele in which he's still executing bowness' game plan and he's playing his game. Which will take time, because honestly, Maurice messed something up. Not sure what. But scheifele doesn't seem to listen well to coaches anymore. Which is very fixable, especially if bowness and scheifele can build some real mutual respect.
Helly will stay as long as the jets will compete. By all accounts, he loves it in Winnipeg. He has a family here and everything. I don't think a 1st round exit will change that. That said, if scheifele and dubois are gone, i don't see helly staying and i don't think he should tbh cause that will be a long rebuild
They have to trade Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebyuck this summer or at TDL if they won't extend.
Get a 1st + good prospect for each and tank for a top 10 pick at the 2024 and 2025 draft. That's 8 good prospects you're adding over 2 years.
By the start of the 26/27 season, WPG could have many good young players joining the team and build something strong.
I would take it even further and move ehlers and scheifele before next deadline after they have hopefully had a strong healthy first half of the season, and also Connor depending on return, have a conversation with morrissey and Lowry on there interest in a rebuild and being apart of it. Possibly helly/Dubois/Connor this summer, hopefully sell relatively high and hopefully pull some diamonds out of this draft, hoping for bjarnson and danielson, but hopefully a greater swing
They have to trade Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebyuck this summer or at TDL if they won't extend.
Get a 1st + good prospect for each and tank for a top 10 pick at the 2024 and 2025 draft. That's 8 good prospects you're adding over 2 years.
By the start of the 26/27 season, WPG could have many good young players joining the team and build something strong.
Agreed. See my above comments for my thoughts on that matter. Either way, the jets are positioned well. But it would really suck if they have an elite 1C (when he's engaged). a vezina caliber goaltender, and norris caliber d-man with depth, and then blow it up when these guys are in their prime. It would be cruel to the fanbase and id be among the people calling for chevy's head. Hes had years to fix the jets problems, and he seems allergic to trades even though this roster needs a clear reset!
You may not agree with me, but I'd keep Scheifele if i could. When engaged, scheifele looks like a one man team. And bowness is really starting to get to him. I think there's certain things he wants to do and knows will make him successful, and he doesn't like it when someone asks him to abandon that. Which makes sense to some extent. The goal should be to find the middle ground with scheifele in which he's still executing bowness' game plan and he's playing his game. Which will take time, because honestly, Maurice messed something up. Not sure what. But scheifele doesn't seem to listen well to coaches anymore. Which is very fixable, especially if bowness and scheifele can build some real mutual respect.
Helly will stay as long as the jets will compete. By all accounts, he loves it in Winnipeg. He has a family here and everything. I don't think a 1st round exit will change that. That said, if scheifele and dubois are gone, i don't see helly staying and i don't think he should tbh cause that will be a long rebuild
I don’t mind a scheifele gamble, even duplicate a wheeler contract for him, with retention in a few years at a deadline I’m sure your still pull what you need to keep building. I don’t blame this nucleus, I blame management and the complacency and lack of quality drafting or developing from moose to jets, something blocking anything outside of 6/7/8 blueliners and bottom 6 forwards. Basically waiver wire fodder, questionable if there’s better guys on waivers or making training camp competitive. But no rants til the offseason and draft lol
I would take it even further and move ehlers and scheifele before next deadline after they have hopefully had a strong healthy first half of the season, and also Connor depending on return, have a conversation with morrissey and Lowry on there interest in a rebuild and being apart of it. Possibly helly/Dubois/Connor this summer, hopefully sell relatively high and hopefully pull some diamonds out of this draft, hoping for bjarnson and danielson, but hopefully a greater swing
Can Chevy and zinger and start fresh in the front office, give their head a shake and realize they are small market and time to do something’s differently than some of the other teams do. Got to be better at getting better talent, pure and simple get after it lol
They have to trade Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebyuck this summer or at TDL if they won't extend.
Get a 1st + good prospect for each and tank for a top 10 pick at the 2024 and 2025 draft. That's 8 good prospects you're adding over 2 years.
By the start of the 26/27 season, WPG could have many good young players joining the team and build something strong.
The only outcomes that would be disastrous is them all being kept as own rentals.
Helle will stay if we’re going to compete and without PLD and 55 we won’t, so moving them both means moving 37 also.
If the rumour is true that PLD will extend if 55 is traded then maybe we can convince 37 to stay too. It’s a really interesting dynamic because as an RFA this summer the Jets will offer PLD 8 by $9.5M and he’ll be able to go to the Habs and ask what the offer will be as a UFA. If it’s 7 by $7.5M that’s $24M in career earnings he leaves on the table just to play for Montreal. Hopefully he has a change of heart and extends long term, we move 55 to Detroit, Boston or Carolina and 37 decides to stay. That is the path to keep the team competitive and clearly hand over leadership to the new core.
Agreed. See my above comments for my thoughts on that matter. Either way, the jets are positioned well. But it would really suck if they have an elite 1C (when he's engaged). a vezina caliber goaltender, and norris caliber d-man with depth, and then blow it up when these guys are in their prime. It would be cruel to the fanbase and id be among the people calling for chevy's head. Hes had years to fix the jets problems, and he seems allergic to trades even though this roster needs a clear reset!
That wouldn't be Chevy's fault if they all want out. He have to deal with the hand he's been given. Getting 5-6 good assets back wouldn't even be bad. It's just closing the cup window for now and opening it back in a few years.
That wouldn't be Chevy's fault if they all want out. He have to deal with the hand he's been given. Getting 5-6 good assets back wouldn't even be bad. It's just closing the cup window for now and opening it back in a few years.
Too many first round misses lately would get me canning Chevy, kid that’s back in Finland, injured perfetti, and mediocre stanley to name a few, when your guys are going down and your youth can’t give you a sniff of hope or waiver wire guys higher on the depth chart, fingers got to start getting pointed, heinola couldn’t even take over for morrissey. Another questionable first. Jets are playing a different game when they can’t get ufas that have any demand anywhere else they better draft damn good or find gold out of the ahl or waiver wire and the ball is getting dropped in my opinion
That wouldn't be Chevy's fault if they all want out. He have to deal with the hand he's been given. Getting 5-6 good assets back wouldn't even be bad. It's just closing the cup window for now and opening it back in a few years.
It is his fault since he’s ignored the jets problems since 2017-2018 until they boiled over last year. Even then, he didn’t do anything, maurice had to leave himself. Man, chevy hasn’t made the team worse, but he sure as hell hasn’t made it better.
It is his fault since he’s ignored the jets problems since 2017-2018 until they boiled over last year. Even then, he didn’t do anything, maurice had to leave himself. Man, chevy hasn’t made the team worse, but he sure as hell hasn’t made it better.
Flipping picks to protect enstrom still burns me, not to say jets pull the trigger on Suzuki but damn that could have been rather helpful
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
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