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Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion (Part 5)

17 avr. 2023 à 12 h 10
#626
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I hope the leafs can make some noise. It’s been long enough
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17 avr. 2023 à 12 h 34
#627
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Biggest X factors for me are:
- Can the bottom 6 break even this year
- That 2nd line HAS to score at 5v5
- Can Rielly/Schenn not get burned
- Stay out of the penalty box
- Get above average goaltending

I personally would have included Knies + Liljegren over Lafferty + Schenn, hopefully Keefe finally wins one of these 50/50 decisions (stacking the top 6, breaking up the top PP unit, Nylander with JT instead of Matthews, because they’ve all come back to bite him over his tenure as Head coach in the playoffs.

I’m nervous as hell
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17 avr. 2023 à 13 h 59
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Quoting: MatthewsFan





Biggest X factors for me are:
- Can the bottom 6 break even this year
- That 2nd line HAS to score at 5v5
- Can Rielly/Schenn not get burned
- Stay out of the penalty box
- Get above average goaltending

I personally would have included Knies + Liljegren over Lafferty + Schenn, hopefully Keefe finally wins one of these 50/50 decisions (stacking the top 6, breaking up the top PP unit, Nylander with JT instead of Matthews, because they’ve all come back to bite him over his tenure as Head coach in the playoffs.

I’m nervous as hell


On a lesser note, I hope Bunting is an X factor in a positive way in that he plays between the whistles and keeps his displeasure of officiating to zero.

I feel Tampa will do everything to get under the skin of guys like Bunting, attempting them to take penalties or worse, get kicked out of the series.
17 avr. 2023 à 14 h 15
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Quoting: oneX
On a lesser note, I hope Bunting is an X factor in a positive way in that he plays between the whistles and keeps his displeasure of officiating to zero.

I feel Tampa will do everything to get under the skin of guys like Bunting, attempting them to take penalties or worse, get kicked out of the series.


Absolutely with Bunting, I don't see it getting to the point of getting kicked out but he needs to find that right balance of playing on the edge that makes him effective while not taking stupid retaliatory penalties.

I'm looking at Tavares that needs to step up. His 5v5 play really took a dive this year during the regular season (only two points last year against TBL at 5v5) if Keefe is going to stack that line they need to produce. I would have much rather Marner on that line instead but oh well.
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17 avr. 2023 à 15 h 45
#630
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Why do I feel this is gonna happen

Were gonna be a line scrum and Bunting gonna be the only guy to be penalized despite 4 or 5 guys beating on each other and when we look at the replay he was the one getting hit and doing nothing.

As in his last 5 games hes really done nothing but Refs seem to always be on his ass

Dont believe CBJ vs. TOR Jenner beating on him but who does the ref grab Bunting or heck the game where he got unsportsmanlike conduct for getting crosschecked.....

Yes some of the things he did before not good but in his most recent games refs are just on him for literally no reason lul.

I hope he just dominates this series as a depth guy even if calls dont go his way. A goal out of the box would be the perfect FU to the refs
17 avr. 2023 à 17 h 42
#631
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I know you didn't ask for my 2 cents, but I've got nothing better to do during intermission and the whole AM34 trade speculation thing is something I find very interesting. It seems obvious that if Matthews expresses that his intent is to not resign, the Leafs are going to be in a very tough spot. I wouldn't necessarily want to give to too early, and we would have to make a choice at a crucial time in the season. If we are having a really good season come the TDL but Matthews has said he is leaving, do you really give up and just trade him? I don't think so. The tricky thing is that if you wait until the offseason, you'd be stuck trading his UFA rights at best, in which case I cant see a suitable return coming back. I think if Matthews leaves, the immediate priority shouldn't be Nylander, but Marner. Marner is the single most important player on this team. His defensive game, his playmaking ability, his underrated scoring ability. The kid does it all, and losing him would be the nail in the coffin.

We really don't have any great center prospects that have 1st line center upside. As for the basis of the trade, I honestly have no idea. If he gets traded to a team like LA, I would be demanding Quinton Byfield, an unprotected 1st, and potentially another high end prospect like Brandt Clarke. I think LA makes the most sense, as they would have Kopitar's caphit off of the books, it's a Western Conference team, and it's a huge market. They certainly have the assets to make it work, but I would rather not think about a reality where we lose one of the greatest all time Leafs in his prime. There is some hope though, as Matthews seems to like Toronto and the legend himself Kyle Dubas has set us up nicely to have more than enough cap space to make it happen. I'm not losing sleep over the thought of AM34 leaving because I don't think it's happened, but if it does, we have to be extremely smart in how we navigate the trade


All opinions are welcome, I enjoy good sports talk when I have the chance too. I personally don't think Matthew's will leave he seems to like Toronto, he gets to be in the spotlight & more importantly he makes wayyyyy more here from endorsement deals here than he would in any other market other than maybe Montreal.

In this hypothetical scenario where AM34 tells the FO he has no intention of re-signing with the leafs we absolutely have to move him this off-season because his return will only diminish the longer we keep him and he's too valuable to not maximize the return. I agree L.A makes the most sense and Byfield will be coming back but Brandt Clarke will for sure have to be part of it as well as at least 1 unprotected 1st and I think this FO pushes for Danault as well. Everyone seems to think they can wait for him to become a FA and sign him without being realistic on how often players of his caliber make it too FA. It's alos not like the Patty Kane situation where there's only one team although, I realize it wouldn't be a massive market for AM.

Also agree Marner should be top priority after Matthew's gets done but we'll have JT's money coming off the books so I'm not worried about him. Nylander is the one who worries me especially after Pasta's deal and after Matthew's and Marner got their contracts he might feel like he got the short end of the stick.
17 avr. 2023 à 18 h 19
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Quoting: oneX
What I say to both of you in response is that when it comes to Ekholm and similar scenarios, you gotta do some napkin math and ask yourself "Ekholm has X amount of years so what's the likelihood that I'm around for that entire contract vs trying to give my roster the best chance possible to win right now"

If Dubas is worried about 5-6 years from now, there's a problem. There's a saying something along the lines of "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" and it seems apt this TDL and the entire off season and into next season just because Matthew's status and what happens beyond that.

As for Keefe, the more I see him make certain decisions, the more I shake my head. Babcock had his warts and I feel Keefe has his own. Keefe is definitely the easy first guy shown the door if the playoff results are lacking but I guess where my thinking differs from some of you guys is that Dubas has had 5 years to show playoff success.

It's not all on Dubas, the players have to take some blame here but Dubas is also the guy who assembles the roster. In my lifetime watching sports, GM's get a certain amount of time before ownership decides there's been enough time for the current GM and it's time to bring in someone else.

To me it feels like some just want Dubas as the the indefinite GM of the Leafs and honestly, that's not realistic.


I get where you're coming from and you're certainly not wrong. As for Ekholm yes in part Dubas has to ask himself that but at the same time he has to be cognizant of future contracts and where this team is going while factoring in trying to win now. I don't agree Dubas went all in at this deadline, if he did Knies wouldn't be wearing a Leafs jersey rn.

I disagree that Dubas thinking about 5-6 years from now is a problem but I get your point and it's valid. 5-6 years is a long time into the future but as a GM you always have to think about the future of your team. The hard part for Dubas and any GM who's team is in win now mode is balancing winning now with how much future you're willing to sacrifice but it can't just be we'll cross that bridge when we get to it... That's a carless approch IMO and how GM's get themselves fired.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think Keefe is the coach to take us far in the playoffs. 💯 He'll be the first one shown the door if we don't have success.

Definitely don't think Dubas is untouchable. He's done a good job since being hired but yes he will be shown the door also if we don't make it outta the 1st rnd.
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17 avr. 2023 à 18 h 24
#633
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Quoting: palhal
Take a look at Ottawa, next season they are at the cap, and really not having enough cap to sign some players to the contracts they want.


I'm aware of their cap situation, that wasn't my question...my question was will new ownership allow their FO to spend to the cap? I'm not sure if you've ever been to Kanata but it's about a 45min drive (depending on traffic) to get to the arena which is why they need a new arena in Ottawa and why they don't sell or haven't sold enough tickets in the past to justify spending to the cap. After spending about a billion dollars to buy the team plus what it will cost for a new arena, new ownership may not be so keen to spend to the cap.

Edit: whoever buys the Sens will have looked over the numbers and know how much revenue the team generates and will take it into consideration when determining what they will spen on the roster. The current ownership Melnyk's daughters allowed their FO to spend to help with the sale of the team but doesn't mean a new ownership group will.
17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 1
#634
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I honestly don’t even want to think about him potentially leaving, I’ll live in ignorance is bliss and just hope for the best.

I don’t even want to guess what a return would even look like if TOR had to go down that road. I’m holding out hope he wants to resign here, I’m guessing another 5 year deal so he in cash in again one more time. Maybe he bolts after that.


Don't worry bro he ain't leaving, it's all just naysayers hating on the leafs and leaf fans. I honestly never understood how someone can spend more time hating on another team rather than following/cheering for their team(s). I'm a huge Jay's fan and absolutely hate the Yankees but I don't wast my time trolling their threads actually, some Yankee fans are some of the best to converse with on baseball trade rumors.
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 13
#635
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Quoting: oneX
On a lesser note, I hope Bunting is an X factor in a positive way in that he plays between the whistles and keeps his displeasure of officiating to zero.

I feel Tampa will do everything to get under the skin of guys like Bunting, attempting them to take penalties or worse, get kicked out of the series.


Quoting: MatthewsFan
Absolutely with Bunting, I don't see it getting to the point of getting kicked out but he needs to find that right balance of playing on the edge that makes him effective while not taking stupid retaliatory penalties.

I'm looking at Tavares that needs to step up. His 5v5 play really took a dive this year during the regular season (only two points last year against TBL at 5v5) if Keefe is going to stack that line they need to produce. I would have much rather Marner on that line instead but oh well.


Fella's I get what you're saying but let's be real the x factor for this playoff series is Vasalevski, if he shows up he can be the difference maker and win the series. I think we can get past Tampa this year but some people seem to think it's going to be a cake walk. Tampa ain't just going to roll over and give us 4 easy wins. Whoever makes it to the cup finals from the East this year will have gone through a blood bath to get there.
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 18
#636
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Fella's I get what you're saying but let's be real the x factor for this playoff series is Vasalevski, if he shows up he can be the difference maker and win the series. I think we can get past Tampa this year but some people seem to think it's going to be a cake walk. Tampa ain't just going to roll over and give us 4 easy wins. Whoever makes it to the cup finals from the East this year will have gone through a blood bath to get there.


Agreed but Bunting needs to keep his antics in check. He could easily sink us if he is baited by Tampa. I love the guy, but he is a loose cannon and has a well known reputation. If he becomes another Kadri, I will be extremely upset. This series is completely winnable, but we cant have guys taking dumb penalties
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 21
#637
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Chills
17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 24
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Agreed but Bunting needs to keep his antics in check. He could easily sink us if he is baited by Tampa. I love the guy, but he is a loose cannon and has a well known reputation. If he becomes another Kadri, I will be extremely upset. This series is completely winnable, but we cant have guys taking dumb penalties


Agree with everything you're saying here. I'll add, how Bunting handels himself this postseason will be heavily factored into his next contract regardless of what team he signs with. If he shows he can't keep his cool and is hurting his team by taking stupid penalties, other teams will certainly think twice about handing him out a big contract especially with term.
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 25
#639
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Fella's I get what you're saying but let's be real the x factor for this playoff series is Vasalevski, if he shows up he can be the difference maker and win the series. I think we can get past Tampa this year but some people seem to think it's going to be a cake walk. Tampa ain't just going to roll over and give us 4 easy wins. Whoever makes it to the cup finals from the East this year will have gone through a blood bath to get there.


No doubt, goaltending is the great equalizer and TBL has one of if not the best in the NHL.

I will say Murray’s glove hand is to Vasilevskiy‘a blocker.




Hopefully they target it again
17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 26
#640
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Quoting: MatthewsFan


Chills


I really wish the NHL would fix it's broadcasting arrangements. The blackouts and the Canadian TV deals especially are horrible. I really wish I could hear Joe Bowen commentate on air Leafs games instead of the lifeless SN panel. TSN is fine, but Bowen is something else
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 33
#641
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
No doubt, goaltending is the great equalizer and TBL has one of if not the best in the NHL.

I will say Murray’s glove hand is to Vasilevskiy‘a blocker.




Hopefully they target it again


Kind of wish Murray could have stayed healthy and could have put on some good games to the end

As imagine Murray vs. Vasi 2 goalies in the cap era who have helped their teams win B2B cups facing one another in ROUND 1

Either way we just need to pray we get the reg season home Sammy in game 1 and 2 and not swimming against his will road Sammy.
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 42
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
No doubt, goaltending is the great equalizer and TBL has one of if not the best in the NHL.

I will say Murray’s glove hand is to Vasilevskiy‘a blocker.




Hopefully they target it again


IMHO I think Vasalevski is the best but others have closed the gap substantially.

You're right! This most certainly is a winnable series for the Leafs but everyone will need to be at their best if they're going to get past Tampa. If we beat Tampa the path through the East won't get any easier but let's take it one series at a time.

I get where you're coming from you brought up weakness from the past. The difference for me is the way I'm looking at is all of that is in the past, this is a clean slate from this point on because if we lose in the 1st round again changes will be massive and we will see a very different team hit the ice next year. They all need to bring their A game every second of every shift otherwise we won't get out of the 1st rnd and that would tell me this isn't the right mix. IMO
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17 avr. 2023 à 19 h 55
#643
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Quoting: aadoyle
Kind of wish Murray could have stayed healthy and could have put on some good games to the end

As imagine Murray vs. Vasi 2 goalies in the cap era who have helped their teams win B2B cups facing one another in ROUND 1

Either way we just need to pray we get the reg season home Sammy in game 1 and 2 and not swimming against his will road Sammy.


Me too. If Murray could have stayed healthy we wouldn't be in the predicament we currently are with him. That said everyone including Dubas knew about his injury history, but I still think Dubas made the right move given the circumstances at the time. Dubas has shown in the past that he can pivot and get creative to not only unload contracts that don't work out but find a way to improve/get value back (the Ritchie, Marazek & even the Kapanen deals all come to mind).

I think Sammy will be fine but he is unproven still. That said there's only one way to get experience.
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17 avr. 2023 à 20 h 3
#644
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Quoting: leafs101
Bunting - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Kerfoot - Tavares - Marner
Knies - ROR - Nylander
Lafferty/ZAR - Kampf - Acciari

Coin toss on Lafferty and ZAR. Playing Knies gives you another element that neither of those guys can bring. He's looked ready through 3 games. Why not play the X factor?

Especially at home where you could more easily shelter him if needed in games 1 and 2.


I'd urge on the side of caution before anointing the kid our savior. He's played 3 meaningless games to this point in his career at the highest level. He's looked good I get it but I also noticed he gets gassed pretty quick. If I'm not mistaken wasn't he playing like 17 mins a night in college? The competition is much harder in the NHL than collage especially in the playoffs where tye games intensity and rough play ramp up.

I'm not down on the kid by any means just think he needs time to eas into the league and line up first. I think it's unfair to him to put him into a situation he's not ready for and the pressure that comes with it and moreso playing for the leafs especially when the playoffs come into play. He shouldn't be the reason we win or lose to Tampa IMO.
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17 avr. 2023 à 20 h 19
#645
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Quoting: oneX
Well...it didn't get any easier this season and guess what? That's not changing next season either unless you know something everyone else doesn't. It is what it is and one can only call it like they see it.

I said all last season and throughout this season that the regular season does not matter, 100 points be damned. It's about the playoffs and what the Leafs do there.


Someone else gets it! My opinion is the regular season is essentially practice the real season starts come game 83
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17 avr. 2023 à 20 h 26
#646
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Could not agree more, we’ve been screaming for years Matthews Nylander and Tavares Marner, we finally got for half this year then Keefe reverts back.

Nylander with Tavares
22/23 GF 18 GA 23
20/23 GF 78 GA 81

Nylander with Matthews
22/23 GF 38 GA 14
20/23 GF 49 GA 32

Marner with Tavares
22/23 GF 31 GA 16
20/23 GF 45 GA 39

Marner with Matthews
22/23 GF 33 GA 20
20/23 GF 142 GA 79

There is no question Matthews and Marner are deadly but if you need a goal in the 3rd period then put them together. But it’s been a long enough sample to see Tavares and Nylander together don’t mix.

I definitely didn’t not expect Knies to look this polished. I would scratch Lafferty to keep him in and go:

Bunting Matthews Marner
Knies O’Reilly Nylander
Kerfoot Tavares Jarnkrok
ZAR Kampf Acciari

And if you need to shorten the bench you can always move Knies off for Tavares and move Acciarri up into 3C.



Jarnkrok Tavares Marner TOI 177min
CF% 53 / FF% 54 / xGF 7.11 / xGA 5.53 / HDCF 35 / HDCA 25

Jarnkrok Tavares Nylander TOI 39min
CF% 50 / FF% 56 / xGF 3.58 / xGA 1.95 / HDCF 15 / HDCA 11

They were better defensively in a lower sample. But Nylander has played his best hockey next to Matthews and now O’Reilly.


It's hard not to feel bad for JT after he was essentially promised he'd be playing with Marner if he signed here then tied Matthew's n Marner at the hip
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17 avr. 2023 à 21 h 1
#647
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Quoting: Trickster
If Dubas leaves I don't see the reason being money.


Oh snap son! Trickster has joined in... Who called in the heavies?!? Lol

In all seriousness 💯 and why would he want to leave to go to pitt? They have an aging core who showed this year can't be relied upon to get them into the playoffs as other teams have closed that gap on them and they have some bad contracts on the books that won't be easy to move. Similar to CGY who whatever GM takes over will have a hard time making the changes needed to get them back into the playoffs.

Whoever thinks Dubas would LEAVE a 100+ point team with the core in their prime to go to a situation like that doesn't have a high IQ. If Dubas is gone this off-season (very unlikely) it will be because MLSE wants to go in another direction and doesn't offer an extension. That said I think we beat Tampa this year making this a moot point. Also, something else to ponder is how can anyone expect someone else to take over and be able to convince Matthew's of their vision to the point he'd be willing to extend in such a short time?
17 avr. 2023 à 21 h 5
#648
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Quoting: oneX
I don't believe money will be the reason Dubas leaves. It strictly has to do with playoff success or rather the lack thereof.

Win or lose, if Dubas stays, I definitely want to see a coaching change because some of the decisions throughout the season have left me headscratching.


This^ maybe keefe proves us wrong but I don't think he's the coach to get us out of the east let alone win a cup. He hasn't been able to get out of the first round to this point.
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17 avr. 2023 à 22 h 15
#649
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Fella's I get what you're saying but let's be real the x factor for this playoff series is Vasalevski, if he shows up he can be the difference maker and win the series. I think we can get past Tampa this year but some people seem to think it's going to be a cake walk. Tampa ain't just going to roll over and give us 4 easy wins. Whoever makes it to the cup finals from the East this year will have gone through a blood bath to get there.


Yeah I started my post off with "on a lesser point" LoL

But yeah Vasi is being overlooked because he has not looked stellar like he did the last couple of years. My fear is that he may turn on beast mode and the Leafs get goalied. There's no amount of anything that can be done by a goalie just turning it on.
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18 avr. 2023 à 0 h 4
#650
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Quoting: oneX
Yeah I started my post off with "on a lesser point" LoL

But yeah Vasi is being overlooked because he has not looked stellar like he did the last couple of years. My fear is that he may turn on beast mode and the Leafs get goalied. There's no amount of anything that can be done by a goalie just turning it on.


You certainly did and I started mine off with “Fella's I get what you're saying"

Point is you both made very valid points/arguments but mine is a little different. I know you're line of thinking is similar as is @MatthewsFan and this isn't meant to be a disagreement more of a different view point. MF (Matthew's Fan) makes very good points about weakness we've all seen up to this point and what we need outta certain players to be successful and he's absolutely 💯 right. You make a very good point about Bunting needing to keep himself in check to be an X factor and you're absolutely 💯right. My point isn't to argue either of yours are wrong I just think my approach is a little different. My point is everything that's happened up to this point is inconsequential because if this team doesn't show up and bring the best version of themselves every second of every shift they won't get past Tampa and this team will look very different next year. Yes Buntz needs to be an x factor but so does literally every player on this team is my point. If they fail to fo that this isn't the right mix going forward. My expectations might be high or some might say unrealistic but this is the playoffs and everyone and their grandmother knows what the current iteration of this team has accomplished to this point and what they are capable of... It's time they get held to those standards IMO.
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