Which is the exact trade proposal most of my fellow Jets fans have been rebuking for months... 🤣

I doubt that gets Dubois. In your example Pionk>>Barron, so there is still likely an add coming from Montreal. That offer would be beaten fairly readily by multiple teams. Young 1C's are the rarest thing in hockey.

The main thing you're missing is that Trouba would only extend with one team. From what we know now that isn't true for PLD at all.

Uhmm no. Pionk was awful in NY when they dealt him and wasn't worth more than barron is right now.

A ) Gorton isnt the GM Hughes is.

B) Doing something once doesnt mean you will do it a again. It was a desperation move by the rangers then and the habs front office hasnt done anything remotely that desperate.

C) The Florida pick currently sits 11th by point percentage. The value of 11 vs 20 is a massive difference. Theres a decent chance the 11th overall pick has a better career than PLD where a 20th overall pick its much less likely.

D) With hindsight most rangers fans would likely agree the trade at best was a wash but realistically they ended up losing it. One of the consequences of the trade was giving trouba a deal he was not worth because the leverage of the situation. It will be the same situation with Dubois where you overpay a player for something hes not.

You said:
"Even the two GMs involved were the same (Cheveldayoff and Gorton).

At the draft, Gorton will probably offer FLO 2023 1st and Barron for Dubois. Might add Dvorak if WPG need him, as MTL would not have a spot for him anymore"

Interesting connection there, although Kent Hughes is the GM of the Canadiens, and Gorton is their VP of Hockey Ops, not even the President. So, he might be involved in those negotiations but not necessarily. Maybe Cheveldayoff didn't like the results of that trade in hindsight so maybe it doesn't help to have Gorton involved.

I don't see MTL trading for Dubois unless it is a Dvorak+ trade.

Yeah, i agree PLD price would be totally different if he listed a few more teams he would play for.

I also agree Pionk was worth more than Barron, but FLO 2023 1st (if top 15) is worth alot more than the 2019 20th 1st.

As for position, i'd say a 1C is worth as much as a 1RD.

Yeah, that will be the key. If PLD will only go to one team it is a lot different.

Going on what all the hockey experts say, 1C is the most valuable position in all of hockey, even over 1 RHD. At the time Trouba was only a top pair RHD though, not a 1 RHD.

A) Gorton and Hughes are both GMs, but since it's MTL, the 'official' GM has to speak french. Gorton is president of hockey operations, but he's involved in every trades.

B) It doesn't prove he will do it again, but it shows he prefer to secure a player now instead of risking losing him on UFA market.

C) FLO 2023 1st is worth more than the 2019 20th, but Pionk was a better D than Barron. PLD will have a better career than the 11th overall, he's a 1C even better than Suzuki.

D) Trouba fell behind Adam Fox on their roster, but he's still a good defenseman. As for Dubois, i think he would love to play for MTL and would be our 1C for years.

Interesting comparison.

I remember the talk then was between Detroit and NY Rangers. Winnipeg didn’t let either speak to player and when Yzerman didn’t budge on sending #6 pick (Seider pick, with 2020 pick back to DET), Trouba went to Rangers.

Just imagine (if everyone picked the same)
DET + Trouba, + Perfetti, -Seider
WPG +Seider, -Heinola, -Pionk, -Perfetti
NYR +Heinola, +Pionk, -Trouba

I remember Bergevin saying something about RD being the toughest position to fill in the NHL, which is why he traded Subban for Weber instead of other pieces.

However, you're right about 1C being the most valuable, as most elite players are centers. But the FLA 2023 1st would make up for the difference in value.

I think you're overrating the value of 5 spots in the draft. It helps, but doesn't add a great deal of value.

5-10 spots in a way better draft. Trust me, you'd get a better player than Heinola.

Drafts are a crap shoot. Nothing is certain. It will depend who is likely available at that slot and how much the Jets value that player.

It's really pointless trying to pin anything down now as far as a deal goes. Nothing will be done until we know where all the picks fall, which will make it easier to guesstimate an appropriate value.

A) https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/team/hockey-operations

Gorton literally isnt a GM. Kent technically oesnt even report to him he reports to Molson.

B) Again thats not his decision to make. He has said multiple time Hughes has final say on personnel. Gorton is in charge of the business side of the job.

C) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8hKAyWXEAU1ZjT?format=jpg&name=large

He wasnt. Also he was older at that point that Barron is now. Barron is worth more today than Pionk was worth then.

PLD isnt better than Suzuki that is laughable. PLD has terrible defensive metrics by most analysis he shouldnt be playing centre he so bad at it.

D) If he wants to play for the habs so bad he can wait a year and sign as a free agent and he will never be 1C for the habs while suzuki is around.

IMO, the trade is somewhat realistic if for the only reason that PLD will not extend. It's how the Jets fill PLD position at centre with the cap that aren't paying PLD will be the deciding issue.
But if the Jets feel they can't find another centre for to PLD in 23/24, he stays.

Of course, both teams would want to see what rank the 1st is before making the trade. MTL wouldn't risk a lottery pick.

Pretty sure the Jets would have a player they value at that spot. 2023 draft is so deep, players drafted 11-16 would be top 10 any other years.

Pretty sure Gorton has a say in every trade.

Pionk had a 26 points season before he was traded. Advanced stats are bad because he was a young 22 years old defenseman on his 1st full NHL season. He turned out to be a decent top 4 D.

PLD is eating Suzuki this year. Not even close. I would bet he ends up being a better center than Suzuki.

Having a say =/= being the GM. Hughes isnnt going to do it just because Jeff did it before.

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=07&d1=29&y1=1995&m2=06&d2=19&y2=2019

Pionk turned 24 a month after the trade. He wasnt that young.

Despite being older than nick since entering the league nick has literally 1 point less than Dubois does over the same sapn while nick has elite defensive skills while Dubois has routinely been a botton 1/5th player defensively. Nick is EASILY better.

Just beware if Barron becomes a future Norris winner and Dubois goes back to his 2021 form

With scheifele/wheeler/helly all entering the last year of there contracts and Dubois with one year of team control left, the fate and spot Dubois lands, may not be entirely in his control. It also changes the packages back. Let’s say that helly or scheifele decide they want to go home or closer to home, without them it may go to rebuild over retool and go for more futures, they could want something short term so the offer comes in at 2/3 years and high 20s for Dubois and pushes all this talk off another year or two. My guess is that jets offer up a 5 for 40 for scheifele and helly and 1x4 for wheeler and 3x9.5 for Dubois and take a swing for a couple more years.