Chicago Accepts : )

Hawks don't need or want Girard on the blue line for 4 more years at 5M. They have enough of a veteran defense presence with Jones, Murphy and McCabe and need D openings to play all there prospects.

The 1st and Kaut is attractive. Since the AVs don't have many high picks, substitute another decent F prospect for Girard and Hawks may accept.

That’s an awful trade for the avs, reckless even, and a massive overpayment for 2 rentals

Hawks decline. If they are trading Toews and Domi, they want picks and prospects. They'll take on salary to make a deal work, but not for 4 additional seasons. Av's probably won't trade multiple 1st's and can't see Hawks waiting til 2025 for a 2nd or 3rd. And Av's prospect pool of forwards might be emptier than the Hawks. And Kaut isn't a guy the Hawks want. Would have claimed him off waivers if he was.

I like Toews, esepcially if they can acquire him right now.

How do you really feel?

Let's keep in mind Kaut cleared waivers twice, so it's not like he has much value. Are you suggesting Girard is a cap dump or has perceived value? Same with JT Compher. Hawks are happy to take negative value back against their cap, but need to be realistic about it as well.

Keep in mind, Toews and Domi are likely both worth a late 1st or 2nd plus individually.

I think Toews makes a lot of sense for the Avs for the record.

Honest question, what is Girard? I thought 2-3 years ago that he was developing into a top 4 guy. Since then his offense seems to have stalled a bit and when I've watched him he's been bad defensively. I don't watch him much so I could be wrong. Any insight from COL fans that watch him a lot?

This is a pretty bad overpay for two rentals. At this point in his career Toews is better than Compher, but the gap is honestly not that huge. Marginal upgrade.

Domi I guess has had a good season, but he wouldn’t play as large of a role on healthy COL. Not sure I understand giving up a premium return for what would be a 3rd liner.

Girard is more than a cap dump, Avs are unlikely to move 2023 1st. Kaut is low value.

You also made this trade and have MacDermid as your 6D. That guy is not an NHL defenseman. You need to go out and trade for additional defensive depth, but you just spent all your assets on middle 6 forwards.

Girard is a weird player. He still plays top 4 minutes for COL and would be a top 4 guy on just about every team in the league.

People make the assumption that because he is small and a flashy skater, he’s an offense first guy. That’s not necessarily it. Girard’s game is controlled zone exits. He’s never gonna be a huge goals guy, his shot isn’t elite. But he can walk the blue line and is great with the puck on his stick. He’s also one of the best conditioned Avs out there. He can eat minutes if needed.

Defensively, he’s also interesting. He relies on stick work to defend and isn’t the type to lay a big hit (given his size). He’s not the best at clearing out bodies in front of the net, so the Avs have historically paired him with big bodied defensemen. Over the past few years, that’s been guys like Jack Johnson and Erik Johnson. If you are into advanced stats, even guys like JFresh have noted how weird Girard’s defensive metrics are given his challenging defensive partners (like JJ).

So I guess in summary: Girard is imperfect. He’s had challenging seasons as of recent. And when you think back to his tenure with the Avs before Makar joined, he was a bona fide 19 year old top pairing defenseman next to Erik Johnson. So it’s a little weird to actually peg his value. But it does frustrate me when people look at his box scores and assume that a 24 year old who has been a consistent 20+ minute a night guy since breaking into the league is just a cap dump.

Toews is a fine target for them as a 2C however they arent getting 1st. Even late ones, not 2023 1st either. They are just not that good of players to warrant those picks.
That same thought is being speculated by other insiders as well. They just dont see 1sts being on the table for anyone outside of Kane from Chicago

That's not true from some insiders, just maybe the one's you are reading. Domi is realistically worth a 2nd plus. Toews is realistically worth a late 1st to 2nd plus a very good prospect. Together they are certainly worth a late 1st, cap dumps, and a struggling young player.

Fans overrate late 1st round draft picks when statistically they have about a 33% of becoming a career NHL player; in other words the red vs. black bet on the roulette table has better odds.

Seravalli mentioned that the other day on Dailyfaceoff. Friedman has mentioned that value of Toews being lower.
I think there is enough chatter from the bigger insider guys that are Pointing towards Toews and Domi not getting the big returns

its still early, things can change..teams evaluations, their targets, needs etc. But from right now I believe from what he been mention currently, it's not the big returns what you should expect.

Things can turn on a dime, it just takes one injury and desperation to set in

Take everything that Friedman says with a grain of salt.

Also, nobody is thinking either get "big" returns, but the very definition of "big" is subjective. You think a late 1st rounder is "big", I do not. Certainly a 2nd rounder is far from "big" subjectively or objectively. The market demand will drive the return as it always does, but domi as an example is a cheap guy on pace for 26 goals and 60+ points, those guys at the TDL historically tend to be worth more then a late 2nd alone especially when their cap hit at 50% return is zilch

Friedman is the bench mark imo, he’s very calculated in what he says not to lead people on and rumour monger

I think it’s the opposite, if he mentions something you pay. Closer attention

I disagree on Friedman completely. I've seen him say some wild things, especially on twitter to drive click bait as it pertains to trades. Until we see the first couple of trades happen and we get closer to the season being over and the standings being more concrete, it's hard to see where things are headed. I much prefer the reporting out of The Athletic, they seem to overall be the most objective.

The athletic said the same things about toews domi And AA not that long ago as well

I believe the said mid round picks for Domi or AA

The Athletic interviewed a few scouts as well as a unnamed GM, those pros had Domi anywhere from a 2nd plus a decent prospect to a late 3rd with the medium being a 2nd...this was month ago and his production has improved since then.

Toews they had a late 1st to late 2nd with the medium being a 2nd a good prospect.

Thus, this trade in this AGM is not off the wall so to speak depending on the value he is assigning Girard and Compher which is why I asked the question in my initial comment.

Ridiculous overpay for pending UFA’s that makes COL markedly worse on the back end AND loses draft capital. Not good.

I would think Avs would have to add Mackinnon to make Chicago even think about this trade.