Plus lots

Dumba is also a rental is a a much worse player

I imagine we'd have to add a 1st round pick to a deal like this

Canucks wouldn't be targeting an offensive defenceman with one year left until UFA

Miller is much much much much much better than Dumba. They are both rentals and about the same age. Minnesota adds a lot

Dumba is as much of a rental as Miller is. Last I recall they BOTH are under contract for next year and next year only. They're both UFA's next offseason.

The fact Dumba's value is less because he's only a *rental*, applies to Miller just as much as it does Dumba.

Keep that in mind.

Is Miller the better player?

Sure.

And that is why he is getting more than just a legitimate Top 4 Defenseman back. He's also getting an extremely solid defense prospect with 2nd pairing upside, and... as @TanSor said likely a pick back as well. I disagree that pick would be a 1st for a JT Miller that would also be a *rental*, but could be a 2nd or 3rd instead.

Because the difference for rental JT Miller and Dumba+Hunt isn't.... plus lots. It's plus little.

There's about two too many much's in your thinking there bub. Dumba isn't an AHL player, he’s a Legitimate Top 4 Defenseman. Who happens to be a RHD, which last I checked carried the second most value in the league after top-six centers.

I know obviously it’s an exaggeration but Minny definitely would have to add. There’s just no argument to be made. As you said, Top 4RHD is the second most valuable position after top 6 centers. Will Miller is exactly that. Dumba doesn’t fit our timetable anyway so seems like a pointless trade

Read my comment again and see what word I put before “a rental”

Also, regarding the value difference,

JT Miller is an all situations player (5v5, PP1, PK1, Overtime, Shootout, 5v6 and 6v5) who plays all three forward positions and has scored 217 points in 202 games since joint vancouver in 2019.

He is coming off a 99 point season and has led the Canucks in scoring 2 of the last 3 years, coming 2nd the one year he didn’t lead.

Dumba is a offensive defenseman who can’t consistently score at a 40 points pace, has average to bad underlying numbers, plays above his head regularly, and costs 750k more.


The gap is big

Look, my grammar isn't always the best, so I hate to be that guy, but even I can tell the difference between what is and isn't correctly specified in that statement you wrote. It's pretty easy to get the wrong impression from reading it.

Which I apparently did. Because the impression I got when reading your comment was simply that Dumba, in addtion to being less valuable, was also a worse player. I got no meaning or sense that you were referring to them both being rentals. If that was your intention, I apologize, because that's not the way I read it.

If you had instead said: Dumba, like Miller, is also a rental and is a much worse player.

I would of gotten your meaning immediately, and believe me when I say I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just saying some better context would of helped.

Context matters here too.

And I certainly don't disagree with anything you just said about Miller.

But saying Dumba is strictly an offensive defenseman isn't true anymore. He hasn't been one since he tore his pectoral muscle 3 years ago and lost the offensive game that was turning him into a Norris caliber player at the time. He certainly hasn't been one since.

Instead, he's improved his defensive game from horrendous to league average since then to better become a more complete two-way defenseman to adapt and stay in the league who can chip in some points now and again, but is still a legitimate top 4 caliber defenseman regardless of his loss of offensive skils.

He's more akin to a Josh Morrissey or Chris Tanev, now, than a Brent Burns or Erik Karlsson. He still carries a fair amount of value and negates a large portion of what's being asked for Miller here.

No, he doesn't carry as much value as Miller. But Miller's value isn't so high that he's worth much more than what's being offered here.

Miller's value likely falls somewhere between what Debrincat and Fiala got. While both wingers, Miller isn't more valuable than Debrincat.

Dumba doesn’t have as much value to Vancouver as he would to other teams as the Canucks aren’t in the market for rentals. They need younger team controlled assets. Hunt also isn’t really a fit as the Canucks are already deep at LHD. So based on Vancouvers needs the price in this trade would need to be a lot more. Realistically I don’t know if a deal between Vancouver and Minnesota makes sense