The Jets picked Brendan Kichton one spot ahead of Kubalik.

There's no way the Hawks accept this. This really isn't even close either. Every team in the NHL has their own Vesalainen. Ours is called Alex Nylander.

Seeing lots of low-ball offers for Kubalik recently -- is there some report or something? I don't think he'll get a blockbuster return, but it'll be better than this. Something like a late 1st or 2x 2nds makes sense to me.

There’s no updates recently on him that I see

Ours is called Nick Merkley

hard pass. Would you accept Nylander and a 3rd for Copp half retained? And it's not even quite the same because Kubalik is an RFA and Copp is a UFA

Heavy undervalue. Kubalik is worth a 1st, especially since he's RFA-controlled.

Tbh, I’m not going to go after the jets for drafting. They are one of the best at it. And recently have been good outside of the 1st round as well

I think a 2nd and a guy like Nylander is good for a 0.5-0.6 pt/gm player. I agree now that I look back that I probably undervalued him a bit and it should be an unconditional 2nd but that’s all I would change personally. It’s not like kubalik has a bunch of team control either with only 1 arbitration eligible year. At best he's a 1.5 year rental when looking at contract status.

Now, looking at value, I think that Andreas Athanasiou is a good comparable so 2 2nds. I don’t see kubalik getting a first, sorry. And if the hawks could get a 1st for him, they would’ve moved him already since that’s what they reportedly want. Maybe some desperate team pays that around the deadline, but I doubt it since there’s better options if you’re willing to pay a 1st. A guy with Vesalainen’s skill, size, shot, and nhl readiness are more intriguing to me than another late 2nd (which the jets don’t have), but that’s just preference.

In terms of value, I think a 2nd and Vesalainen is fair for the reasons I outlined above (and retention doesn’t carry much value, maybe a 3rd at best).

If I’m a bottom 10 team, I consider it. However, copp is way more valuable than kubalik even with his contract status. Contending teams are willing to pay a 1st plus a good prospect for a guy like that. He produces more than kubalik, is in the upper echelon of forwards around the league in terms of defending (he’s easily the jets best), and adds significant leadership. All things contending teams are willing to pay top dollar for. So even with kubalik having one more “controlled year” (not really with arbitration), not even close to copp in value.

And that is completely ignoring the fact that the jets would never willingly move Copp, he’s too invaluable to the team.

Gonna need a source for this.

I was reading it on the athletic a while back (like a month ago, give or take a week). I can’t exactly remember if the author said that the asking price was a 1st or if they haven’t been able to find someone willing to give a first, but for our purposes it’s the same. Also, since the hawks are a team that plays it’s cards close to its chest, it’s probably speculation based on market value and what the author heard. I’m sure you can find the exact article yourself with a bit of effort.

We'll see, I really want to see these two Russian forwards sooner then later!
Would be nice to see some of these later round drafted dmen like Samberg, Kovacevic, Gawanke, Chisholm get in some NHL games to see if the Jets have actually found some top 4 dmen outside of the 1st round or if they're just good at drafting and developing AHL dmen.

If the Jets aren't looking like a playoff lock by the trade deadline they should absolutely trade Copp.

And just saying it was LA that drafted him he stayed in the OHL for a bit, did not go well at all which completely ruined whatever confidence he had, so to regain it he went over to Europe (I believe in Switzerland to be exact) where he became a star and the kings noticed his development and offered him an elc but Kubalik was hesitant to go back to North America so the kings gave up and traded him to the Blackhawks for just a 5th rounder in one of the worst trades of the last decade.

I appreciate the conversation. Truly, I do. I'm not of the same opinion as you when it comes to Kubalik's value. I think most of it falls on the prospect. The Hawks don't want or need Vesalainen. In my personal opinion...he's not a plus at all. You're asking us to slow down the development of our own prospects because you have the opinion that your "Alex Nylander" is better than our "Alex Nylander". If you were to ask me...would I take another Nylander and a 2nd...I'd still say no.

What I'd like the Hawks to do is see what his arbitration is negotiate a 5 year deal. He'll get contract certainty and the Hawks get a sniper which they need to keep. Debrincat is the only other sniper on the team. The comps that you've provided are missing important pieces (in my mind). You say "At best he's a 1.5 year rental." OK, but the comp AA was a half year rental because EDM didn't think he was worth qualifying, but still gave up (2) 2nds for him.

As for the Copp comparison...I can appreciate the defensive play he brings. I'm VERY in favor of defensive forwards. Those guys do all the intangible things that free up the ice to allow the Ehlers of the world do what they do. This issue I have is that you claim Copp's production is better than Kubalik's. And if you try to cherry pick very specific stats...on away games...at night...and ONLY while the Hawks start the season off to a historically bad start... OK fine I can see those very cherry-picked stats and see Copp has 1 more goal and 7 more assists this season. I'd remind you that even while looking at Kubalik's worst season and comparing it to Copp's best season that Kubalik plays with Phillip Kurashev, Jujar Khaira, Kirby Dach, and Toews (you know the guy that just took a full year off to be on LTIR) the most while Copp plays with Ehlers, Scheifele, PLD, and Stastny as his 1-4 most linemates 5v5. Again, Copp is a good player and I would be happy if he joined the Hawks in the offseason, but let's not kid each other when it comes to production.

I don’t think I said vesalainen is better than nylander, but I’m not re reading what I wrote 😂. Too much work and I’m on holidays lol. If the problem comes down to Vesalainen, then the jets can’t match an offer of 2 actual 2nds so it would have to be another prospect. If you don’t like Vesalainen, it’s a fair point.

I appreciate the conversation as well, good hockey conversations are always good. When talking about trade value, it doesn’t matter what contract the hawks can or should sign him to, unless they plan on keeping him like the jets do copp. What matters in trade value is certainty and kubalik simply doesn’t have much in trade value.

Now, copp has played most of his career in the shutdown 3rd line role. That is why us production is low. It’s not that he never could produce, it’s that he doesn’t because the jets need him in a different role. Before last year, the jets had plenty of top 6 guys to score but needed their crucial shutdown line. Copp’s production there isn’t really showing that he isn’t capable of producing 50-60 pts a season nor that he produces less than kubalik. When playing in a top 6 role: kubalik avg: 55 pts (informing this year). Copp avg: 55 pts (only this year since it’s the first year he played top 6 consistently). What’s more important is that copp produced at a higher rate than kubalik in a mainly 3rd line shutdown/PP2 role last year. In each of their best years respectively. Also adding in the fact that copp has been adding offence to his game each year.

Therefore, copp produces at the same rate as kubalik and plays a high end defensive game to go along with it. Therefore, copp>Kubalik. Finally, I want to add that if the jets played copp in a top 6 role like kubalik (free to score as much as possible), copp would easily be at a pt/gm. But, that’s not what the jets need from him when their top 6 is relatively healthy. He was at above a point per game when the jets had scheifele and Wheeler out because the jets needed scoring more than defence then. Now they don’t. But that’s just a hypothesis.

The issue is Kubalik doesn't play a top 6 role unless he's with Toews and his 30 goal season was mostly on the 3rd line and not with either Toews or Kane.

Yes, and it’s the same with copp. His most productive season (last season just like kubalik) was with Lowry and appleton in a shutdown role. This is basically the first year copp has played a top 6 role and it’s only because he deserves it and injury