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Serious Question Are the Ranges and Kings Mismanaging all their Prospects

14 oct à 15 h 08
#1
Rejoint: jun 2017
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The Kings and Rangers have been touted for having someo the deepest prospect pools because of their high draft picks. But we have already seen the Rangers struggle in developing Howden, Gautheier, Anderson and Chytil to an extent as they were all 1st rounders who have not lived up to the hype. Along with Kakkos skating still not getting fixed and struggling offense and Lafreniere who was supposed to be NHL ready struggle heavily (was better at the end and expect him to be the best of anyone here). But with With LA weve seen Vilardi look like a future middle 6 forward at best, Kupari struggle, Turcotte now in his D+3 year still not make the NHL and Byfield taken 2nd overall still not make it either. I hate judging young kids and calling them bust early in their career which I am not. But it might be time to pump the brakes on both of these teams futures because everything we've seen from their forward prospects developments has been very underwhelming.
14 oct à 15 h 11
#2
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I dont think their AHL team is used for development prospects which is a major issue. Ryan Graves is a prime example of that, he was stuck there and felt like he didnt have a shot at playing in the NHL, it wasn't until he was traded that he felt like he had a chance to make a team, now look at him.

I thought the same th ing, I think something is broken in their dev system, their AHL isnt churning out their prospects into players and what they are doing by developing young players at the NHL level isnt working either
TM11 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 18
#3
Little Week Forever
Rejoint: jui 2021
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I agree that the Rangers aren't doing very well in prospect development, but any issues the Kings have can mostly be attributed to the random chance that prospects don't pan out or reach their fullest potential. The main difference is that NY has had this problem for a while, but LA still needs a few years to reflect considering how recently they started their rebuild.
A_Habs_fan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 25
#4
Rejoint: jui 2021
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don’t know what the deal is with some of their other prospects, but my impression was that had byfield not gotten hurt, he’d be in the nhl right now.
Devil1122 et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 25
#5
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LA has come out and said publicly that they intend to take their time with their prospects and won't rush them to the NHL. Just because 21-year olds aren't playing in the NHL doesn't mean they're mismanaged.

Vilardi had serious injury issues coming out of the draft, so it's no surprise that it took him a bit longer to develop. McLellan just called him the MVP of training camp, so he's doing something right. I don't think the "middle six" assessment is accurate. Byfield was on track to make the team this year out of camp before he was injured. Kaliyev got a call-up in his place.

I'd much rather have guys like Kupari, Turcotte, and Thomas playing top six minutes in the AHL than playing 10 minutes a night on the 4th line for the Kings, or even worse, watching the games from the team suite.
KINGS67, Devil1122 et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 31
#6
Rejoint: mar 2019
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I'm a Kings fan, so I'm biased. But here's my quick take:

Rangers look to be in trouble with their development staff. One player might be a one-off, but with Kravtsov now asking out and being okay with playing in the AHL for any other team shows that there might be a disconnect between players, organization, and NHL/AHL goals. I'm also not a fan of how quickly they rushed Kakko to the NHL, and it definitely backfired on them with Lias Andersson.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have absolute faith in the fact that the Kings and Reign are aligned in how they want their prospects developing. They hired Wroblewski specifically to develop the prospects. However, there are two problems that have plagued the ability for prospects to reach the NHL for LA. The first is that the NHL roster has been littered with contracts like Lemieux, Wagner, Lizotte, Grundstrom, etc that don't expire until this year. The second is that the players that you discuss have all had significant injury history (which is a problem with luck, as well as maybe some disregarding of past history by Kings scouting staff).

-Vilardi missed SIGNIFICANT TIME due to his back injuries. We're talking nearly two full seasons of development. His first full NHL season last year was as a top-6 center, and he's going to be allowed to grow against more appropriate talent this year as the de-facto 3C. It's one of the reasons they brought in Danault.

-Turcotte, while yes in his D+3 missed significant time both in his D+1 year at Wisconsin due to injury and sickness, then proceeded to have more injuries in his D+2 in Ontario. He's only played 61 games in the past two years, the equivalent of one year in the AHL.

-Kupari tore his ACL at the 2020 World Juniors and missed over half a season as a result. He was able to get back last year and made his NHL debut after the deadline. He's coming along nicely.

-Byfield was actually going to make the team this year. MacLellan is on record saying the 4C spot was his before his injury. Look for him to have a conditioning stint in the AHL upon the healing of his ankle, and then I expect him to jump to the NHL and never look back.
AndrewLadd, Devil1122 et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 35
#7
Pain for Shane
Rejoint: mar 2019
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I'm a Kings fan, so I'm biased. But here's my quick take:

Rangers look to be in trouble with their development staff. One player might be a one-off, but with Kravtsov now asking out and being okay with playing in the AHL for any other team shows that there might be a disconnect between players, organization, and NHL/AHL goals. I'm also not a fan of how quickly they rushed Kakko to the NHL, and it definitely backfired on them with Lias Andersson.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have absolute faith in the fact that the Kings and Reign are aligned in how they want their prospects developing. They hired Wroblewski specifically to develop the prospects. However, there are two problems that have plagued the ability for prospects to reach the NHL for LA. The first is that the NHL roster has been littered with contracts like Lemieux, Wagner, Lizotte, Grundstrom, etc that don't expire until this year. The second is that the players that you discuss have all had significant injury history (which is a problem with luck, as well as maybe some disregarding of past history by Kings scouting staff).

-Vilardi missed SIGNIFICANT TIME due to his back injuries. We're talking nearly two full seasons of development. His first full NHL season last year was as a top-6 center, and he's going to be allowed to grow against more appropriate talent this year as the de-facto 3C. It's one of the reasons they brought in Danault.

-Turcotte, while yes in his D+3 missed significant time both in his D+1 year at Wisconsin due to injury and sickness, then proceeded to have more injuries in his D+2 in Ontario. He's only played 61 games in the past two years, the equivalent of one year in the AHL.

-Kupari tore his ACL at the 2020 World Juniors and missed over half a season as a result. He was able to get back last year and made his NHL debut after the deadline. He's coming along nicely.

-Byfield was actually going to make the team this year. MacLellan is on record saying the 4C spot was his before his injury. Look for him to have a conditioning stint in the AHL upon the healing of his ankle, and then I expect him to jump to the NHL and never look back.


Jeez, I never realized how bad the kings luck was regarding prospect injuries
PuckLuck_77, A_Habs_fan et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 41
#8
Rejoint: mar 2019
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Jeez, I never realized how bad the kings luck was regarding prospect injuries


I didn't even talk about Madden missing the full AHL season last year from an absolutely dirty hit early on. (I think he played somewhere along the lines of 5 total games). Or Bjornfot who had to miss time with concussion issues because of a dirty Chandler Stevenson elbow last year, his rookie year.

Every single one of the Kings 1st round picks since 2017 have missed extended time. It's like we're fricken cursed.
Vilardi 2017 -- back
Kupari 2018 -- ACL
Turcotte 2019 #5 -- multiple, ranging from sickness to broken fingers, etc
Bjornfot 2019 #22 -- Concussions
Byfield 2020 -- fractured ankle
Clarke 2021 -- just missed all of development camp and preseason from mono.
AndrewLadd, pinslack et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 44
#9
Pain for Shane
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I didn't even talk about Madden missing the full AHL season last year from an absolutely dirty hit early on. (I think he played somewhere along the lines of 5 total games). Or Bjornfot who had to miss time with concussion issues because of a dirty Chandler Stevenson elbow last year, his rookie year.

Every single one of the Kings 1st round picks since 2017 have missed extended time. It's like we're fricken cursed.
Vilardi 2017 -- back
Kupari 2018 -- ACL
Turcotte 2019 #5 -- multiple, ranging from sickness to broken fingers, etc
Bjornfot 2019 #22 -- Concussions
Byfield 2020 -- fractured ankle
Clarke 2021 -- just missed all of development camp and preseason from mono.

Dang that’s awful, I hope all these prospects are able to overcome the injuries
PuckLuck_77 et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 51
#10
Rejoint: mar 2019
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Dang that’s awful, I hope all these prospects are able to overcome the injuries


Heh, you and me both. From an optimistic point of view, though, things seem to be moving forward.

Vilardi had a full NHL season last year. Played as the 2C, but showed some conditioning issues that he struggled with late in games. That conditioning is likely due to missing almost all ice time in two key development years. As a fellow King fan said above, he was named the MVP of the preseason for LA by the coach. Watching him, he looked to have gained a step and wasn't fading in games like last year.

Turcotte is a stud when he's playing. His injury history has me concerned, but when he's playing, he's a difference maker. Oozes skill. He doesn't have an NHL shot, but he'll be an extremely talented playmaker at the NHL level. And when Kaliyev is on his wing... he won't need to be the one scoring goals lol.

Kupari, like I said, is coming along nicely. He's on the borderline of the NHL/AHL and would be playing in the N if the roster didn't have plugs until the end of the year. Instead, he'll get 20+ minutes a night with Turcotte/****emo/etc.

Byfield is an NHL'r. The Kings looked like a completely different team when he was on the ice as opposed to after his injury. He brings a different dynamic when he's in the lineup, and shouldn't see anything more than a conditioning stint when healthy.

Toby is starting as a 2nd pair defenseman in his sophomore season. He looks good, we just need to try to coax more offense out of him.

Clarke returns to the OHL tonight after recovering from mono. First game back! So it doesn't sound like it was too serious of a case.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 16 h 39
#11
v5 CBJ GM
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As has been stated above, yes the rangers seem to have a development problem but for the Kings, it may be more of a fluke/injury problems and it's slightly too early to tell
Devil1122 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 17 h 28
#12
Démarrer sujet
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
As has been stated above, yes the rangers seem to have a development problem but for the Kings, it may be more of a fluke/injury problems and it's slightly too early to tell


Yeah I do agree with that to an extent but also at the same time you really would have hoped to see progression from at least some of them, especially turcotte who I would say i am the most worried about
14 oct à 18 h 04
#13
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Quoting: TM11
Yeah I do agree with that to an extent but also at the same time you really would have hoped to see progression from at least some of them, especially turcotte who I would say i am the most worried about


Turcotte looked really good in training camp. He's coming along nicely. He'll be playing 1st line minutes in Ontario, and I'd expect him among the first call-ups to cover for injuries this season.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
15 oct à 14 h 20
#14
best poster
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I don't think the Kings have a problem. They truly didn't bottom out until like 2018 and as others have stated, are trying to ease their prospects into the NHL. For them I think it's revisiting this in a few years.

The problem with the Rangers seems to be more of a problem in their development staff and scouting. The Rangers drafting has been seriously lackluster since 2013; having 2014-2016 being entirely busts save for Shesterkin and Chytil. Additionally, the fact that Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov and Andersson have all had a hard time in the NHL seems to be more down to the backroom. I don't think the management for the Rangers is all too fantastic given how they just fired their President, GM and Coach last season and overhauled their roster in response to a single game.
A_Habs_fan et Devil1122 a aimé ceci.
16 oct à 5 h 25
#15
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If I'm a Rangers fan I'm not overly concerned about Lafreniere and Kakko right now, but they need to take significant steps this season. However, losing Kravtsov would be a disaster. It shouldn't take a top 10 pick more than 2 years to crack an NHL roster, especially on a mediocre team. Lias Andersson was also a colossal screw up. And given where Chytil was as an 18 y.o., he hasn't developed particularly well either. I'm thinking the Rangers need to take a serious look at their scouting and development processes.
TM11, Devil1122 et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
 
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