Forums/Toronto Maple Leafs

Is Mitch Marner Overpaid

13 sept. à 12 h 19
#26
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
I don't understand what you are trying to show here you completely failed to represent the stats in an easy way to read. I am going to break it down for you.

Aho on his ELC which earned him his $8,460,250 contract:
242 games, 83 goals, 114 assists, 197 points, 0.81 points per game. 15 playoff games, 5 playoff goals, 7 playoff assists, 12 playoff points, 0.80 playoff points per game. Combined 257 games, 209 points, 0.81 points per game.
- Really impressive stats, offensively gifted, but his defensive metrics are absolutely terrible. You can look at JFresh, Evolving-Hockey and Dom luszczyszyn's models, they will back that up.

Marner on his ELC which earned him his $10,903,00 contract:
241 games, 67 goals, 157 assists, 224 points, 0.93 points per game. 20 playoff games, 5 playoff goals, 12 playoff assists, 17 playoff points, 0.85 playoff points per game. Combined 261 games, 241 points, 0.92 points per game.
- Marner obviously has the better 3 years during their ELC's which FAIRLY awards him a bigger contracts than Aho. Not only is he scoring more points in both the regular season and in the playoffs per game, he is also a MUCH greater defensive player with his defensive impact sky rocketing in his final year of his ELC. All this is backed by JFresh, Evolving-Hockey and Dom luszczyszyn's models.

Aho after he signed his contract:
124 games, 62 goals, 61 assists, 123 points, 0.99 points per game. 19 playoff games, 9 playoff goals, 14 play off assists, 23 playoff points, 1.21 playoff points per game. Combined 143 games, 146 points, 1.02 points per game pace.
- Just like earlier, really impressive stats, especially goalscoring. Defensive liability still that is backed up by JFresh, Evolving-Hockey and Dom luszczyszyn's models. Unreal in the playoffs.

Marner after he signed his contract:
114 games, 36 goals, 98 assists, 134 points, 1.18 points per game. 12 playoff games, 0 playoff goals, 8 playoff assists, 8 playoff points, 0.67 playoff points per game. Combined, 126 games, 142 points, 1.13 points per game.
- Marner has really come into his own now. He is scoring at an elite pace while being one of the most defensively responsible players in the league getting the keys to both the Leafs power play and penalty kill. Obviously on an other level to Aho.

Overall Aho stats:
400 games, 159 goals, 196 assists, 355 points, 0.89 points per game.

Overall Marner stats:
387 games, 108 goals, 275 assists, 383 points, 0.99 points per game.

Conclusion:
Marner was more productive during their ELC which rightfully award him a higher contract. He scores more points than Aho, he plays more minutes than Aho, he is much better defensively than Aho, and has now developed into becoming the 2nd best two-way winger in the league. Aho is a phenomenal player, but this breakdown, plus the eye test, plus the analytical models have Marner as the better and more complete player compared to Aho. Still I am the homer in this discussion? I have just destroyed your argument with facts that prove my points, while you only have subjectivity to prove your point. Fight another battle, this isn't the one you are going to win my friend.

t
Sorry you didn't destroy my argument at all. You're just proving what that you so bias for Marner it's downright silly. It's ridiculous to to base the the RFA signing on the previous 3 years as a ELC. The contract should based on the players expectations in the future. Clearly Aho has outplayed Marner in the past two years...just by his goal production alone. Never mind Aho's far superior play in the playoffs. You seem to think Aho is inferior to Marner defensively. That's a stretch, their plus minus are the same and Aho does kill penalties also.
Aho at 8.5m X 5 was good deal for Carolina but as we saw just the max he was going to get. Marner should have got the same based on the their last two years of ELC, On a six year deal 9m. So the Leafs overpaid Marner 2m a year by any RFA standard.
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13 sept. à 12 h 30
#27
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Goals reign supreme in the NHL. Which makes sense, when you consider that putting the puck in the net is the object of the game – while players who get you there are definitely valuable, those that you can rely on to score goals will get the most money. Shots, unsurprisingly, are the next most valuable trait. Assists, which are Marner’s bread and butter, are a tier below, and modern underlying metrics a level below that (which, give the multiple layers to them, does make sense).
Which is why I would choose Rantanen over Marner.
Tavares’s $11-million AAV set an internal bar Matthews had to clear. Then Marner needed to be in Matthews’ ballpark. He was sent back down to junior, and the Leafs were very blunt about why he was sent to junior. He didn’t get the full [Schedule B] bonuses in his first contract, Babcock throw him under the bus, and Mitch’s dad is a noodle.

The best comparable is Patrick Kane. Kane signed his contract midway through the 2009/10 season, he had 144 points in the two seasons prior, and that year, finished with 88 points and a Stanley Cup. Kane finished his first three years with 76 goals, 154 assists, and 230 points in 244 games. Marner finished his with 67 goals, 157 assists, and 224 points. Adjusting for era, Marner’s points increase to 232, while Kane’s increase to 244. Kane received five years at $6.3 million per year, for a cap percentage of 11.09%. This is in line with the averaged-out look above.
A cap percentage of 11%, under an $83 million salary cap in 2019/20, would afford Marner a baseline cap hit of $9.13 million on a six-year deal.

Love that Marner is a Leaf, he is over paid dude


He scored at pretty much the exact same pace as Kane, but Kane never was or will ever be close to defensive player that Marner is which is why Marner rightfully gets paid more. He also signed a 5 year deal vs 6 that Marner signed. I bet you his cap hit would be higher if he signed for an extra year. Marner is pretty unique in todays game. He does so much more than your scoring winger (Rantanen, Pastrnak, Kane). He scores at their level, but plays the defensive game as well which is why he is paid more than them. I think him and Marchand are in a special tier. Not as good as Kucherov, Draisaitl and Panarin, but better than every other wingers in the game. He is not over paid dude.
13 sept. à 12 h 31
#28
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Quoting: palhal
t
Sorry you didn't destroy my argument at all. You're just proving what that you so bias for Marner it's downright silly. It's ridiculous to to base the the RFA signing on the previous 3 years as a ELC. The contract should based on the players expectations in the future. Clearly Aho has outplayed Marner in the past two years...just by his goal production alone. Never mind Aho's far superior play in the playoffs. You seem to think Aho is inferior to Marner defensively. That's a stretch, their plus minus are the same and Aho does kill penalties also.
Aho at 8.5m X 5 was good deal for Carolina but as we saw just the max he was going to get. Marner should have got the same based on the their last two years of ELC, On a six year deal 9m. So the Leafs overpaid Marner 2m a year by any RFA standard.


Using +/- just showed me that I am wasting my time talking to you and that I never can take your opinion seriously on this website again. Thank you, but there will be no more further replies to you.
13 sept. à 12 h 35
#29
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
Using +/- just showed me that I am wasting my time talking to you and that I never can take your opinion seriously on this website again. Thank you, but there will be no more further replies to you.


Great. It's much better to converse with folks who want to talk logically or even passionately. But to show distain for another player just because he isn't on your team and trying to build your guy, silly homerism at it's worse. Yea, plus minus isn't. the best....but it's a lot better than your opinion. Glad to you and I have ignore bottom.
13 sept. à 12 h 49
#30
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
He scored at pretty much the exact same pace as Kane, but Kane never was or will ever be close to defensive player that Marner is which is why Marner rightfully gets paid more. He also signed a 5 year deal vs 6 that Marner signed. I bet you his cap hit would be higher if he signed for an extra year. Marner is pretty unique in todays game. He does so much more than your scoring winger (Rantanen, Pastrnak, Kane). He scores at their level, but plays the defensive game as well which is why he is paid more than them. I think him and Marchand are in a special tier. Not as good as Kucherov, Draisaitl and Panarin, but better than every other wingers in the game. He is not over paid dude.


I’ll just leave it at this, we both agree that having Marner on the Leafs is awesome!
Now answer this, he continues to put up points and is still a no show in the playoffs, do you actually believe the Leafs or another team offers him a contract north of 10mil in four years?
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13 sept. à 12 h 53
#31
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I’ll just leave it at this, we both agree that having Marner on the Leafs is awesome!
Now answer this, he continues to put up points and is still a no show in the playoffs, do you actually believe the Leafs or another team offers him a contract north of 10mil in four years?


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13 sept. à 17 h 36
#32
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I originally wanted Marner on 4 year deal, maybe 3 years even if it meant paying more potentially then now.

8 million for 4 years was perfect to me.


Yes I believe Marner is overpaid despite what your saying RE his stats and advanced stats.

The context of the pandemic occurring probably the only reason why, without a flat cap... probably wouldn't seem so bad.
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13 sept. à 20 h 1
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Good effort putting all this argument together.

I don't dispute that Marner is the highly talented winger you describe. Most people don't. But I still think it's a bad signing. And I'm not saying this with the benefit of hindsight: I was saying the exact same thing before the contract was signed and the pandemic started! Many reasons.

- If the AAV price was about 11M during negotiations, higher than any winger in the league, management had to bridge. That's what most Canadian GMs did, rightly so. The reasoning is that even after the bridge and without COVID, the AAV for wingers would have increased to the level his agent was asking for, at best. So, you gain cap space for 3-4 years.

- Psychologically, it's not desirable for a young player not named McDavid to become the highest paid player at his position (nobody is at McDavid's level). Too much pressure. I said that before: exceeding expectations always feels better, more motivating. Maybe the blame is other people's greed. But if Marner had a 9M AAV right now, nobody would have a negative thing to say about him. It would feel great for him.

The last playoffs are a good example. Keefe played him 25 minutes a game. It's like he was saying: you wanted that contract, now deliver. The reality is, however, this level of ice time is well beyond optimal.

In short: you can spoil the development of young players by raising the bar too high, too soon. Mitch throwing the puck in the stands is not him failing the fans. It's the people around him who failed him in his development, from his agent to the GM.

- You mentioned the PK several times. It's great. I like defensively reliable players, too. But to be frank, Marner should not play on the PK in the first place. Other players can do it, and fill that role with the same efficiency, if not more. Being a reliable defender at even strength is more than sufficient for Marner. Unless you change the entire system of the team, and become like Boston. But the Leafs aren't Boston. With regards to special teams, his focus should be the PP.

- Rantanen, Kucherov are comparables. Rantanen doesn't fill the same defensive role, but he has physicality and a better goal scoring touch. That's worth something. Kucherov is at another level entirely: his play under pressure and intense coverage is unparalleled. The way Tampa supported his development was exemplary. They went step by step, and of course, he was bridged. In fact, both players are better managed, because they have realistic expectations. And their cap hit is about just right.

With all that said, I like your attitude. I'm tired of cap discussions anyway, especially after the fact, since we can't change that anymore. So it may be better to see the glass half full.
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13 sept. à 21 h 22
#34
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Quoting: leaflet
Good effort putting all this argument together.

I don't dispute that Marner is the highly talented winger you describe. Most people don't. But I still think it's a bad signing. And I'm not saying this with the benefit of hindsight: I was saying the exact same thing before the contract was signed and the pandemic started! Many reasons.

- If the AAV price was about 11M during negotiations, higher than any winger in the league, management had to bridge. That's what most Canadian GMs did, rightly so. The reasoning is that even after the bridge and without COVID, the AAV for wingers would have increased to the level his agent was asking for, at best. So, you gain cap space for 3-4 years.

- Psychologically, it's not desirable for a young player not named McDavid to become the highest paid player at his position (nobody is at McDavid's level). Too much pressure. I said that before: exceeding expectations always feels better, more motivating. Maybe the blame is other people's greed. But if Marner had a 9M AAV right now, nobody would have a negative thing to say about him. It would feel great for him.

The last playoffs are a good example. Keefe played him 25 minutes a game. It's like he was saying: you wanted that contract, now deliver. The reality is, however, this level of ice time is well beyond optimal.

In short: you can spoil the development of young players by raising the bar too high, too soon. Mitch throwing the puck in the stands is not him failing the fans. It's the people around him who failed him in his development, from his agent to the GM.

- You mentioned the PK several times. It's great. I like defensively reliable players, too. But to be frank, Marner should not play on the PK in the first place. Other players can do it, and fill that role with the same efficiency, if not more. Being a reliable defender at even strength is more than sufficient for Marner. Unless you change the entire system of the team, and become like Boston. But the Leafs aren't Boston. With regards to special teams, his focus should be the PP.

- Rantanen, Kucherov are comparables. Rantanen doesn't fill the same defensive role, but he has physicality and a better goal scoring touch. That's worth something. Kucherov is at another level entirely: his play under pressure and intense coverage is unparalleled. The way Tampa supported his development was exemplary. They went step by step, and of course, he was bridged. In fact, both players are better managed, because they have realistic expectations. And their cap hit is about just right.

With all that said, I like your attitude. I'm tired of cap discussions anyway, especially after the fact, since we can't change that anymore. So it may be better to see the glass half full.


Firstly, I have to say that the way you constructed your response is exemplary. An extremely great read with some very valid points that you backed up nicely with facts. I can't really dispute much you said as it all makes sense, but I have some things I want to discuss.

I have to say that your point regarding bridging Marner makes sense the more I think about it. If his contract expired next summer, he would be paid the exact same amount as he is paid now, So for these 3 years if he was bridged around $7.5-$8M, we would have had some extra cap space to play with. I really didn't think about it that way before you mentioned it.

Secondly, I do disagree with your opinion on the contract putting too much pressure on Marner. Since his draft year, Marner has not been anything other than a stud. He even had an excellent rookie campaign in the OHL almost hitting a ppg while actually doing it in the playoffs for the London Knights, a team that is known for making their young talent have to work and earn that spot in the top six. He did it in his rookies year with players 4 years older than him. His draft year he was the best player on the team when there still was players 3 years older than him. Max Domi who was picked 12th overall in the draft 2 years earlier, was outshone by Marner. We don't even have to talk about the season after his draft year, the numbers a pure comedy, especially in the playoffs. He already had all that pressure built on him when entering the league and still managed to produce an excellent rookie season in the NHL (61 points in 77 games). He survived that kind of pressure, in addition to having Mike Babcock as a coach who at stretches played Mitch on the 4th line. He showed to me at least that he wasn't the kind of player that gets fazed when the pressure builds up. I think he has proven since then that he can handle pressure very well. Somebody has to be the highest paid player on their position, why can't it be Mitch, from a psychological perspective?

While playing him 25 minutes a game in the playoffs is a little bit ridiculous, I don't think Keefe was wrong in riding him and Matthews. They are our two best players without question, and I want them on the ice as much as possible, especially in the playoffs. What I would question is why Nylander is playing more than 7 minutes less, the difference between the two isn't 7 minutes a game different. I didn't view it as Keefe saying ''you wanted that contract, now deliver.'' In my view, it was more of a ''please, bail me out here, I don't know what to do.'' I do like Keefe as a HC, but he couldn't really adapt to JT going down, in a series we were up 3-1 in without him. I don't think Mitch has got too much too soon, I think that is the media narrative around him. From what I have read and seen, he seems like a very humble young man that works extremely hard to improve at a sport he already is one of the greatest currently active at playing it. He never comes off as rude, selfish, childish, spoiled or ignorant that you would link to someone that has got too much in life too early on.

At one point, I would completely agree with you and not have Mitch Involved with the PK anymore. I think it was a waist of his energy and would negatively impact his offensive impact. But, if you look at his production levels during the regular season, he has been on 90+ point pace the least 3 season with the most recent season having a pace for 30 goals and 100 points. This idea I am about to present doesn't have anything statistically to back it up with. It is more of a hunch that I have. I believe Marner is one of those players that just feeds of being involved in the game at all the time, it almost is as if he doesn't have enough time to sit down and think about what is happening, he can sort of just ''feel'' the game if that makes sense to you at all? His hockey IQ is actually through the roof, he must surely be in the top 10 of players in the league with the highest hockey IQ, something I would think defensemen and players that play in the middle would top. My point is that, by playing him in all situations, which won't make you worse at a team at all due to his high intelligence will only benefit him and you as a team, because he almost always impacts the game in a positive way, by making the right play or the impossible play that us casuals could only dream of executing. I wonder if the Leafs ever would give Marner and Kerfoot a chance to play together shorthanded. Their IQ's are of the chart's. I think they could expose some power plays that aren't sharp. Not suggesting that they would lead the league in shorthanded points, but it would also not surprise me.

I love Mikko Rantanen as a player and he has some skills that Marner don't. Like you said, his physicality and goal scoring touch should definitely be something that you take into consideration. However, respectfully, I don't think Marner and Rantanen are on the same level. Both of them play with players generally considered in the top five in the league so they both play with phenomenal players and on phenomenal teams. Rantanen will probably score 40 goals at some point in his career, and Marner will likely have a season with 30. However, I doubt Rantanen will ever be able to develop into a player that can dominate every single situation the game throws at him, just like Marner can. I think that people overlook the defensive side of the game too much. I am not saying that you are one of those people, but defense is 50% of the game, so I think it should be worth mentioning when a player is among the best at both facets of the game.

With respect to Marner, he is not on Nikita Kucherov's level. I like that you pointed out the way that they developed him. Kucherov as a player coming from a complete different hockey culture, continent was someone that Tampa likely knew was going to be fragile if he was put under too much pressure too soon. Frankly, the same thing applies to Rantanen that also played I the AHL before making the jump. I don't think Marner needed that, he was from the local area he was going to play in, he knew all about the pressure and the history of the team. I could honestly not think of another player that could have handled everything as well as he has done. Obviously Matthews helps to shoulder the burden as well, and he is just special as pressure doesn't affect him as well either.

At the end of the day, I think Marner will prove all his critiques wrong. I am not saying that the Leafs will win a cup, but he will at some point have a crazy playoff run which will make all of this forgotten. He is just too good of a player not too, Same applies to AM34.
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14 sept. à 1 h 44
#35
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
Firstly, I have to say that the way you constructed your response is exemplary. An extremely great read with some very valid points that you backed up nicely with facts. I can't really dispute much you said as it all makes sense, but I have some things I want to discuss.

I have to say that your point regarding bridging Marner makes sense the more I think about it. If his contract expired next summer, he would be paid the exact same amount as he is paid now, So for these 3 years if he was bridged around $7.5-$8M, we would have had some extra cap space to play with. I really didn't think about it that way before you mentioned it.

Secondly, I do disagree with your opinion on the contract putting too much pressure on Marner. Since his draft year, Marner has not been anything other than a stud. He even had an excellent rookie campaign in the OHL almost hitting a ppg while actually doing it in the playoffs for the London Knights, a team that is known for making their young talent have to work and earn that spot in the top six. He did it in his rookies year with players 4 years older than him. His draft year he was the best player on the team when there still was players 3 years older than him. Max Domi who was picked 12th overall in the draft 2 years earlier, was outshone by Marner. We don't even have to talk about the season after his draft year, the numbers a pure comedy, especially in the playoffs. He already had all that pressure built on him when entering the league and still managed to produce an excellent rookie season in the NHL (61 points in 77 games). He survived that kind of pressure, in addition to having Mike Babcock as a coach who at stretches played Mitch on the 4th line. He showed to me at least that he wasn't the kind of player that gets fazed when the pressure builds up. I think he has proven since then that he can handle pressure very well. Somebody has to be the highest paid player on their position, why can't it be Mitch, from a psychological perspective?





While playing him 25 minutes a game in the playoffs is a little bit ridiculous, I don't think Keefe was wrong in riding him and Matthews. They are our two best players without question, and I want them on the ice as much as possible, especially in the playoffs. What I would question is why Nylander is playing more than 7 minutes less, the difference between the two isn't 7 minutes a game different. I didn't view it as Keefe saying ''you wanted that contract, now deliver.'' In my view, it was more of a ''please, bail me out here, I don't know what to do.'' I do like Keefe as a HC, but he couldn't really adapt to JT going down, in a series we were up 3-1 in without him. I don't think Mitch has got too much too soon, I think that is the media narrative around him. From what I have read and seen, he seems like a very humble young man that works extremely hard to improve at a sport he already is one of the greatest currently active at playing it. He never comes off as rude, selfish, childish, spoiled or ignorant that you would link to someone that has got too much in life too early on.

At one point, I would completely agree with you and not have Mitch Involved with the PK anymore. I think it was a waist of his energy and would negatively impact his offensive impact. But, if you look at his production levels during the regular season, he has been on 90+ point pace the least 3 season with the most recent season having a pace for 30 goals and 100 points. This idea I am about to present doesn't have anything statistically to back it up with. It is more of a hunch that I have. I believe Marner is one of those players that just feeds of being involved in the game at all the time, it almost is as if he doesn't have enough time to sit down and think about what is happening, he can sort of just ''feel'' the game if that makes sense to you at all? His hockey IQ is actually through the roof, he must surely be in the top 10 of players in the league with the highest hockey IQ, something I would think defensemen and players that play in the middle would top. My point is that, by playing him in all situations, which won't make you worse at a team at all due to his high intelligence will only benefit him and you as a team, because he almost always impacts the game in a positive way, by making the right play or the impossible play that us casuals could only dream of executing. I wonder if the Leafs ever would give Marner and Kerfoot a chance to play together shorthanded. Their IQ's are of the chart's. I think they could expose some power plays that aren't sharp. Not suggesting that they would lead the league in shorthanded points, but it would also not surprise me.


I will start with saying that there's ALWAYS more pressure playing hockey in a Canadian city. Now add in the negotiations Marner had and the eventual contract signed, yeah the pressure is ratched up because it's suddenly "put up or shut up" time.

Back during contract negotiations, I was saying similar things to what @leaflet said in the above post. @Aadoyle's post also very nicely sums up why players get paid more playing for Canadian teams despite taking home less money than players south of the border.

The pandemic really messed things up for Dubas because as others have pointed out, had the cap risen Marner's contract (or Nylander's/Matthews') wouldn't be quite the issue they seem to be ATM.

Lastly, I want to make a point about this site but particularly the people posting here on a daily basis. When Marner's contract was being negotiated, every single non Leafs fan was coming into Leafs discussion threads and saying how Marner deserves the rumored 10 million but as soon as he got that contract, man... the turncoats came rushing out to point out how overpaid Marner is.

There's quite a few hypocrites on this site and they all have something in common. Can you figure out what that is?
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15 sept. à 11 h 40
#36
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Quoting: aadoyle
Marner is 1.3mill overpaid against the cap but if we look multiple factors including Canadian taxes one could argue why it was done through his representatives perspective

Here is an example between Marner the closest comparable's in Rantanen and Kucherov once respected taxes are applied. Made it as simple as possible as yes one could include living expenses, tax cuts and all that lovely stuff but reality is often the number is either slightly higher or lower.

Mitch Marner

Cap Hit/Salary: $10,893,000.

After Tax Earnings: $5,097,129 (53.5% Tax Rate Ontario 2021)

Mikko Rantanen

Cap Hit/Salary: $9,250,000

After Tax Earnings: $5,215,848 (43.61% Tax Rate Colorado 2021)

Nikita Kucherov

Cap Hit/Salary: $9,500,000

After Tax Earnings: $5,795,174 (39% Tax Rate Florida 2021)

Now if we apply these same cap hits to Ontario's tax system

Marner would have made between $4,333,620-$4,449,796 if his cap hit was between 9.25-9.5m

So in the end Marner is taking home less thanks to Canadian taxes.

In general Canadian teams no matter where they are often have to overpay their talent or free agents they bring in. It sucks but when you factor in taxes and other factors it makes sense. And its not just hockey that this is seen, basketball and baseball players in Canada often have higher cap hits. Examples include Blue Jays bringing in Springer.

Anyways the whole Marner overpaid thing is a tiresome dialogue that is just people crying away at how much a guy is making. Be thankful that he is still young and a potential 100point player as it could be worse look at Buffalo and Skinner. My advice move on as sooner or later someone worse than Marner will be making more once the cap starts going up


Sorry the tax rate is non factor in any cases. Never have I seen player complain when they are traded to the Jays or Raptors complain about the taxes or wanted to compensated for higher taxes.
Why do anything think, an American pays so much in Canadian taxes?

Why do folks think players pay the personnel tax rate anyway? Certainly not in Canada.
16 sept. à 2 h 50
#37
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Quoting: palhal
Sorry the tax rate is non factor in any cases. Never have I seen player complain when they are traded to the Jays or Raptors complain about the taxes or wanted to compensated for higher taxes.
Why do anything think, an American pays so much in Canadian taxes?

Why do folks think players pay the personnel tax rate anyway? Certainly not in Canada.


Taxes are not the ONLY factor but they are a factor for sure. Look at Aadoyle's breakdown of Marner's take home pay vs Rantanen's take home pay. It is a factor for some players.

Weather is probably a factor and for players who are not Canadian, (mostly Americans) Canada is not viewed the same way as American cities.

Yes there's a border but the lifestyle in Canada is not drastically different than from the US but Americans for whatever reason do see a difference.
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16 sept. à 9 h 21
#38
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Quoting: oneX
Taxes are not the ONLY factor but they are a factor for sure. Look at Aadoyle's breakdown of Marner's take home pay vs Rantanen's take home pay. It is a factor for some players.

Weather is probably a factor and for players who are not Canadian, (mostly Americans) Canada is not viewed the same way as American cities.

Yes there's a border but the lifestyle in Canada is not drastically different than from the US but Americans for whatever reason do see a difference.


The thing about taxes.....it is not correct that players...certainly Canadian players, pay all their salary in personal income taxes, and certainly not in the province that their team in based in.

Just to add.....given the choice, I even as a Canadian, given the choice, Winnipeg, and Edmonton would be among my "not want to go to teams" due to weather and travel.
Trickster a aimé ceci.
7 oct. à 1 h 52
#39
Rejoint: mars 2019
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Quoting: palhal
The thing about taxes.....it is not correct that players...certainly Canadian players, pay all their salary in personal income taxes, and certainly not in the province that their team in based in.

Just to add.....given the choice, I even as a Canadian, given the choice, Winnipeg, and Edmonton would be among my "not want to go to teams" due to weather and travel.


I understand your point but I do think taxes make a difference to some players, not all but SOME for sure.

As you mentioned, weather and travel are factors but something that Canadians particularly don't understand is how Americans view playing/living in Canada vs being somewhere in the US. I think this last part is very understated in how big a role it plays in whether players sign with Canadian teams.
Trickster a aimé ceci.
7 oct. à 9 h 34
#40
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: juill. 2015
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Quoting: oneX
I understand your point but I do think taxes make a difference to some players, not all but SOME for sure.

As you mentioned, weather and travel are factors but something that Canadians particularly don't understand is how Americans view playing/living in Canada vs being somewhere in the US. I think this last part is very understated in how big a role it plays in whether players sign with Canadian teams.


Thinking the Covid restrictions would affect any American wanting to play in Canada.....meaning his family couldn't visit.
oneX et Trickster a aimé ceci.
 
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