Forums/Armchair-GM

Did Dubas Protect the Right Guy

Créé par: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
Date de création initiale: jui 22, 2021
Publié: 22 jui à 0 h 39
Équipe: 2021-22 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
UFAANSCAP HIT
Brossoit, Laurent22 000 000 $
Bogosian, Zach11 000 000 $
Savard, David23 750 000 $
Transactions
TOR
  1. McCann, Jared
SEA
  1. Holl, Justin
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
2023
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $81 456 450 $0 $0 $43 550 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
SEA
McCann, Jared
2 940 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 3
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 4
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
796 667 $
AG
RFA - 3
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
1 250 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
1 645 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
TOR
Brooks, Adam
725 000 $
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
900 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Semyonov, Kirill
825 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
5 625 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Brodie, TJ
5 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Campbell, Jack
1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 1
Savard, David
3 750 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
Brossoit, Laurent
2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 1
TOR
Bogosian, Zach
1 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Dermott, Travis
1 500 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 2

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22 jui à 0 h 41
#1
Rejoint: fév 2021
Messages: 1,663
Mentions "j'aime": 674
NO HE DID NOT
22 jui à 0 h 42
#2
Rejoint: nov 2018
Messages: 5,425
Mentions "j'aime": 1,260
DumAss is a genius , never question him.
22 jui à 0 h 47
#3
IdEnTiTy LiNe
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 3,295
Mentions "j'aime": 1,627
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
DumAss is a genius , never question him.


Quoting: mitchmarner16
NO HE DID NOT


Top 4 RHD at $2M are impossible to find.

They don’t exist besides Holl

Jared McCanns do exist
GenXHockey a aimé ceci.
22 jui à 0 h 48
#4
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,467
Mentions "j'aime": 1,550
Quoting: TheFlamingC
Top 4 RHD at $2M are impossible to find.

They don’t exist besides Holl


Jared McCanns do exist


*sigh*
22 jui à 0 h 49
#5
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 11,980
Mentions "j'aime": 7,335
No. McCann is better than Kerfoot, and if you leave both Kerfoot and Holl exposed, Seattle almost certainly takes Kerfoot imo.
22 jui à 0 h 50
#6
IdEnTiTy LiNe
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 3,295
Mentions "j'aime": 1,627
Quoting: Laudan
*sigh*


Explain
22 jui à 0 h 50
#7
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 7,919
Mentions "j'aime": 2,058
Quoting: Claesson4Norris
No. McCann is better than Kerfoot, and if you leave both Kerfoot and Holl exposed, Seattle almost certainly takes Kerfoot imo.


Well it would be 7-3-1 so both McCann and Kerfoot plus one other forward would have been protected instead of Holl.
22 jui à 0 h 52
#8
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 7,350
Mentions "j'aime": 2,669
Is this even a question?
GenXHockey a aimé ceci.
22 jui à 0 h 53
#9
IdEnTiTy LiNe
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 3,295
Mentions "j'aime": 1,627
Quoting: Claesson4Norris
No. McCann is better than Kerfoot, and if you leave both Kerfoot and Holl exposed, Seattle almost certainly takes Kerfoot imo.


They would pass up on a $2M top 4 guy when their RHD depth is

Adam Larsson

That’s it

Makes sense to me
GenXHockey a aimé ceci.
22 jui à 0 h 54
#10
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,467
Mentions "j'aime": 1,550
Quoting: TheFlamingC
Explain


No harm ment, but if you think Holl is "TOP 4D", then i cant expalin to you much, because you wouldnt understand.....
22 jui à 0 h 55
#11
Rejoint: jan 2018
Messages: 11,980
Mentions "j'aime": 7,335
Quoting: TheFlamingC
They would pass up on a $2M top 4 guy when their RHD depth is

Adam Larsson

That’s it

Makes sense to me


I don't think Holl is a top 4 guy on every team. I think him and Muzzin work really well together, but I think it's more a testament to how good Muzzin is than anything.
22 jui à 0 h 56
#12
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 7,919
Mentions "j'aime": 2,058
Quoting: Laudan
No harm ment, but if you think Holl is "TOP 4D", then i cant expalin to you much, because you wouldnt understand.....


I do think Holl is a #4D man and his +/- is great.
22 jui à 0 h 56
#13
Isles7
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 12,222
Mentions "j'aime": 5,298
Quoting: TheFlamingC
Top 4 RHD at $2M are impossible to find.

They don’t exist besides Holl

Jared McCanns do exist


Holl is carried by Muzzin . Dubas could have trade for someone like troy stretcher who only makes 1.7 mill. McCann had a 1st line impact last season, it was stupid to leave him exposed
22 jui à 0 h 58
#14
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,467
Mentions "j'aime": 1,550
Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I do think Holl is a #4D man and his +/- is great.


You and 95% of fan base ( i call them homers ) + Dubarelli. Thats why 1st Round is this Teams max.
22 jui à 0 h 59
#15
Formerly Jamiepo
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 18,629
Mentions "j'aime": 9,583
Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
Well it would be 7-3-1 so both McCann and Kerfoot plus one other forward would have been protected instead of Holl.


They could have protected mccaan Spezza and Brooks. But I think dubas has other plans. This was always just to protect kerfoot. Seattle would have certainly took Holl. The only reason they had kerfoot in mind is because they knew the leafs would protect the top 4 d. Otherwise kerfoot is never an option.
22 jui à 1 h 00
#16
IdEnTiTy LiNe
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 3,295
Mentions "j'aime": 1,627
Quoting: Laudan
No harm ment, but if you think Holl is "TOP 4D", then i cant expalin to you much, because you wouldnt understand.....


How is he not a top 4 d-man?
Terrible breakout pass but decent offensive player driver and good defensively, good PK, literally exactly what you’d like to see out of a #4
22 jui à 1 h 01
#17
Formerly Jamiepo
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 18,629
Mentions "j'aime": 9,583
Modifié 22 jui à 1 h 08
Quoting: Laudan
You and 95% of fan base ( i call them homers ) + Dubarelli. Thats why 1st Round is this Teams max.


So our defence was the reason for the exit? No it has been great. I don’t know why you’re concerned about mccaan. Figured you’d hate a soft analytics player like him.
22 jui à 1 h 02
#18
Rejoint: nov 2018
Messages: 5,425
Mentions "j'aime": 1,260
Modifié 22 jui à 14 h 05
If Holl is your best RHD, than you're team fails to get pass the 1st Rd. Every single time.

Proven fact.
22 jui à 1 h 09
#19
IdEnTiTy LiNe
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 3,295
Mentions "j'aime": 1,627
Quoting: Isles777
Holl is carried by Muzzin . Dubas could have trade for someone like troy stretcher who only makes 1.7 mill. McCann had a 1st line impact last season, it was stupid to leave him exposed


Ok, if they could replace Holl then yea, protect McCann. McCann is a better player but Holl is more valuable to the Leafs
22 jui à 1 h 16
#20
Isles7
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 12,222
Mentions "j'aime": 5,298
Quoting: TheFlamingC
Ok, if they could replace Holl then yea, protect McCann. McCann is a better player but Holl is more valuable to the Leafs


But holl is easily replaceable. Dubas could definitely acquire one of Jensen/TVR from the caps. They can both be 2RD with Muzzin. It’s a lot harder to find a player with McCanns impact.
22 jui à 2 h 49
#21
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,467
Mentions "j'aime": 1,550
Modifié 23 jui à 13 h 12
Quoting: GenXHockey
So our defence was the reason for the exit? No it has been great. I don’t know why you’re concerned about mccaan. Figured you’d hate a soft analytics player like him.


Will just quote the guy because he nailed the point i was making with that statement :

Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
If Holl is your 2nd best RHD than you're team fails to get pass the 1st Rd. Proven fact.



So, to answer your "hipotetical " question first, no it wasnt the D, it was actualy great, thanks to Muzzin ( once more ) and to Brodie being Dr. Jekyll ( you briefed me on him 2 years back, so i hope you know what im talking about ) and the honorable mention of everybodys non-favourite Bogosian, so there was one guy in each pair that was able to excel in his own end and make possible Campbell panned out as second coming of Hasek.

This years exit was caused by MTLs tactic to completely shut down first two "super" lines and our bottom six couldnt deliver, they performed same drill on both WPG and VGK till they ran into TBL, which throwing around 1st picks for 3rd Liners proved to be superior mindset to win the Cup, twice. Also Keefe failed when after 3-1 lead he didnt stripped Matthews off his checking experiment and told him to be Matthews 2019, so standing on the top of face-off circle with his stick in the air. It would end 4-1, but kid fatigued down because for being Ovechkin type of GOAT, you need a lot of stamina and he just wasnt ready conditions-wise, yet.

As for McCann case, im not hard on him as much as im soft on Holl. When Dubarelli fleeced PIT for the second time within one year and they signed Dermott my guess was :

TML goes 7-3-1 after fleecing for McCann, which smelled like finishing the TBL-experiment and leaving to SEA : F are Engvall & we know how Spezza draft would end, D are Holl and Dermott and G would be Hutchinson.

Hopefully Hakstol is blindsided about Holl as much as 95% of TML fan base, him being "TOP 4 D", so they pick him, Dermott fills next to Jake "the workhorse" Muzzin with same effect and for 500k less and also 5 years longer or even Liljegren can finally jump up, cause even Zaitsev looked decent next to Muzzin. So all in all, if they took Holl, Dermott fills in, if they took whoever else, "TOP 4D" stays and 95% fan base is happy

Andersen signed 2 x 3,8M, so he pushes his shares back up, finally playing behind decent D and being back to 2,38 GAA instead 2,8 GAA as he was in those years behind....., well you know behind what

Foligno signed 2 x 2,6M, orelse this years TDLs "all in" was one of the dumbest ive seen in last years where you shed 1st for a 33y old rental, where Hall costed 2nd ( i read he will be MIN, so that TBL-like experiment just fell flat )


2021 / 2022

Mikheyev - Matthews - Marner........it went well till kid cut his wrist
Galchenyuk - Tavares - Nylander......it went well till infamous Overtime pass failure
Kerfoot - McCann - Foligno..............attempt of channeling Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman
Simmonds - Semyonov - Spezza.....and Brooks

Rielly - Brodie......................................tho i would "dump" Rielly for Sandin and bring another Muzzin over off-season
Muzzin - Dermott
Sandin - 1,6M left in my simulation

D is still far away from TBLs and to those who are backing the ED decision as "if we only lose 7th and Hållander, we are ok with Team left intact"....well that "intact Team" just failed in 1st Round....again


Holl is product of Muzzin and im really sorry 95% of TML fanbase cant see that. Hes 29y and he didnt just drink Red Bull last Season and turned into what most of you see as "TOP 4D" cause his "over-night wonder" completely coincide with him being Paired with Muzzin. That tandem works mostly cause Muzzin is busting his ass out at his 30y and makes Holl look like hes NHLer with 70% of job in that tandem being done by Muzzin. Last few Games against CBJ when Muzzin went down should make you people start to realise what i am talking about.

When i was preaching how Dubarelli needs to re-sign Muzzin cause hes the only "D from the books" in the Team, most of you were opposing me with fact how slow he looks and similar. believe me ( and i bet you can tell that by yourself too cause im not talking science here ) if you get fatigued that reflects on your stability, explosivness and all the other things connected to state of your body. Hes 30+ and if you ever stood on any "fighting surfaces" ( cant come out with proper english expresion, thinking of boxing canvases, tatami and such ) then you know how hitting, skating, blocking are wearing you off quickly....especially if you are the one thats doing 70% of them on 5 v 5 and 80% on 4 v 5 on your tandem. Wonder if he would fell so awkwardly against CBJ if otherwise....and this year....again, out in Game 6 with an injury, doubt WPG would fell without him in case they would advance

Holl is No6 D at most and his 2M are to much for that position, especially now with Dermott being 1,5M and you know you were one of main advocats how he can be as good on RD as anybody else on Team. Holl was just lucky the sun shined on him that day he was paired with Muzzin, otherwise we would be talking about Dermott only today and noone would even remember Holl was on Team. But then again....beggars cant be choosers, so....
22 jui à 2 h 56
#22
Banni
Rejoint: jui 2021
Messages: 339
Mentions "j'aime": 119
Quoting: TheFlamingC
Top 4 RHD at $2M are impossible to find.

They don’t exist besides Holl

Jared McCanns do exist


Lets take a look.
Scott Mayfield
Phil Meyers
TVR - is basically Holls clone
Erik Cernak
Troy Stecher
Justin Holl
Artem Zub
Zach Whitecloud
Travis Hamonic (expected contract is 2x2, could get overpaid)
22 jui à 5 h 32
#23
Rejoint: aoû 2018
Messages: 1,951
Mentions "j'aime": 477
Modifié 22 jui à 5 h 48
I like Holl and he has played really well, but hes 28 yrs old with 2 seasons in NHL, offers little offensively, and is really right time/right place guy. I dont really think hes a good number 4, hes an average number 4, and might be worse than that on another team. He has exceeded expectations and has played well and at good value. But lets not get carried away, if he cost 3.5mil he'd be a disappointment.

Overall, TOR would lose a valuable player in expansion, and its very debateable whether SEA would have gone for Kerfoot over Holl, (i think they would have, no doubt in my mind. Take a look at the dmen available in front of Holl and the ones they chose (Oleksiak/Larsson/Dunn/Giordano/young guys) and compare that to the centermen). But McCann is far the better player on a good contract and more of what the team needs for depth and in their pretty meh bottom 6. Maybe Holl is more of what the team needs right now, but McCann coming off two 32+ pt seasons (better than Kerfoot) as well as the loss of Hallander and a 7th, looks plain dumb.

Mayvbe Hallander and a 7th is debateable value, but we just lost 3 assets on a (remote) chance they took Holl, which I think is poor management
22 jui à 19 h 27
#24
Hakuna Matata
Rejoint: fév 2020
Messages: 9,878
Mentions "j'aime": 5,723
Yes.

Holl is not an easy guy to replace. Right handed right dman are very rare in the NHL. I believe the percentage rn is 30% currently playing
22 jui à 19 h 28
#25
Hakuna Matata
Rejoint: fév 2020
Messages: 9,878
Mentions "j'aime": 5,723
Quoting: Im_islesforthecup
Lets take a look.
Scott Mayfield
Phil Meyers
TVR - is basically Holls clone
Erik Cernak
Troy Stecher
Justin Holl
Artem Zub
Zach Whitecloud
Travis Hamonic (expected contract is 2x2, could get overpaid)


I think what he meant was in FA

Like I know there are a bunch of Holls but would said teams want to move them out absolutely not
 
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