How can anybody really think that Bennett is better than Mikheyvev? Gee the Leafs finally how some power forwards....Hyman, Simmons, Thornton and Mikheyvev. What's the problem?

@oneX, @Ritzy, @PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood,

I'm a big Nylander and Tavares supporter. But I think winning and PP production has overshadowed some pretty mediocre 5v5 play. Tavares seems to be coughing up the puck a lot more this year, and his shot numbers (as of a couple of games ago) have dropped drastically compared to last 2 years.

If I had to guess, i would think that's the issue that Dubas may be concerned about.

Other possibility. Dubas wants to acquire a defensive forward to play on Leafs "checking line" and let Hyman stay in the top 6. If they put together the checking line again, that can handle other teams 1st or 2nd lines, that will again allow Keefe to deploy Tavares and Nylander in "Sedin" mode (major OZ starts vs. 3rd/4th lines) which you would hope would allow them to start dominating again at 5v5.

With all this said, maybe Thornton/Robertson can help Tavares line. I'm not sure who Dubas can acquire to fill these roles without hurting our D depth, or killing our cap.

Nic Petan has looked like he fits in with the jump he's brought to the lineup since injuries. Travis Boyd also has fit in so again, why do moves need to be made to bring in a likely more expensive forward?

Also, by the same injuries argument, what happens if injuries happen to the D-core? IMHO the D-core is more fragile in it's depth than the forward group.

Leafs are two injuries away to the D-core from having to insert a Matt Marincin. Remember him? Yeah I don't want to...

I'm not disagreeing with your points because I have seen some of the same things you have but right now I'm viewing these problems as something players and the team in general having to overcome.

My very real concern is what happens if/when there's an injury at D. Last season got ugly with the injuries on D and I don't want to re-visit that.

Thorton with JT and Nylander makes so much more sense to me than with MnM. Mainly because JT and Nylander are goal scorers, Marner isn't so let Marner dish to Matthews and Hyman while Thorton can create space for JT and Nylander to score. Robertson with Kerfoot and Mikheyev would be really fun as well. The shutdown line is Matthews, he's the best defensive player on the team and hopefully will start getting the respect he deserves in that sense.

at least three injuries away from Marincin. Marincin isn't that bad as a third pair D, its only when they have so many injuries that he finds himself in the top 4 that its really scary. As the 9th (maybe even 10th with Liljegren) D, he's fine

Right?!? "But if we trade Dermott and Lehtonen then Sandin gets to play!" And then what happens if Muzzin gets hurt? Welcome back Marty! Nope, to all of that.

Yeah, considering the cost of another Top 6 forward both in cap and cost of assets, I'm thinking maybe another defensive forward would be target. The Leafs make their "Goodrow/Coleman" acquisition.

If Tavares or Nylander line is allowed to be sheltered, then it doesn't really matter who plays with them, they likely will produce.

So maybe it's picks/prospects for a J. Larsson type.

Haven't you been a proponent of trading Dermott? (The clear best option for 3LD at the moment) move him and Muzzin gets hurt we now have Marincin as the 7th defenceman. One more injury or if Lehtonen or Sandin falter, welcome back Marty. All of that risk just to fix a whole up front that doesn't really exist. We are afterall 1st in the division and the league. Our defence is much improved we are scoring and despite the concern about 5v5 results currently don't have a minus player on the roster. Seems like weakening the defensive depth to overcome a future forward injury while also getting back two injured forwards in the next week is rather silly.

Yeah, Matthews line can be the checking line, but if they can create a Kerfoot line (with Mikheyev) that can match up with other teams 2nd line, that allows Leafs to run Tavares in a Sedins role, which should create nightmares for other teams.

If Hyman is in top 6 (he has to be) then there isn't really another in-house option to slot in there. I love Robertson, but that's not the best role to start him in (despite him being decent forechecker/defensively).

The cap doesn't work unless a player is moved out and it just doesn't compute for that to make sense unless it's a defenceman. Which is why everyone is trading Dermott. Weakening our defensive depth for a forward we don't need.

Defensive forward under $1M in -- Vesey out (he's had his opportunity).

Considering Keefe made fairly drastic line-up changes in training camp in order to mold the Kerfoot line into a defensively responsible line to start the season, I doubt a couple of injuries punts that plan out the window.

I don't see how Hyman ends up on the 3rd line again. So I'm curious to see what the plan is there.

Aside from this with Boyd, Simmonds, etc. looking good the rest of the depth looks great.

And I agree, i'd be fine with Thornton on that 2nd line, but him there certainly wouldn't give me more confidence that the Tavares line can go ahead and handle a McDavid matchup. So... I'd think that would make the kerfoot line being solid defensively becomes more important.

Its not the best role for Kerfoot and Mikheyev to be in. Unless Hyman is with them as well. Personally I hate the idea of a 3rd line checking line. It's ridiculous. Making Kerfoot's line try to stop McDavid is just nonsense.

Matthews should get the McDavid matchup, make him defend Marner, Matthews and Hyman. McDavid will still get his chances but Matthews will as well, likely more. McDavid has over his career given up more high danger chances than he generates but scores more often on his than anyone else. Put him against Matthews and that won't be the case because Matthews will make you pay just as badly but will get more chances. I'd rather see that than Kerfoot get torched.

Matthews line can match-up with McDavid. Kerfoot line can match-up with Draisaitl.

You have to admit, Tavares line (no matter who's been with them) hasn't looked that great 5v5. If Kerfoot line is another scoring line, that forces Tavares line to be against other teams 2nd best, which to this point they haven't been up for.

Keefe/Malholtra obviously wanted this "Kerfoot in a defensive role" line to start the season.

Again Matthews vs. McDavid - you appear to be missing that i continue to make that point.

I'm concerned that Tavares line can't seem to handle other teams 2nd best, and that could be detrimental going forward.

JT and Nylander are both plus players, they are outscoring their competition.

no I haven't. Unless something absolutely unresistable comes forth and we can get another 6th/7th D, I would not trade Dermott.

Talk about a low bar!!

So you think they are playing up to their usual standards at 5v5 this year?

Tavares 1g at 5v5 in 14 games seems fine to you?

Including first 5 or 6 games of the season getting the sheltered "Sedin" minutes.

Mikheyev has 1 goal on the season but an insane amount of chances. Sometimes you just don't get the bounces. I do think something is missing for those two. I think they could use a guy like Hyman or Simmonds. Even Thorton could be a good option. He can cycle down low and dish the puck. JT needs to be able to drift into soft spots to fire off one timers. Nylander can do what he does but a guy who can feed them and create space is what I think they are missing most.

I don't mind the idea of Thornton or Simmonds with those 2. The only worry I would have is if they are going against h2h vs. Draisaitl line, Tkachuk line (in Cgy), etc.

Just because of how they look currently (wouldn't have been too worried last year). Leafs are exactly 1/4 of the way through the season, and the 2 of them seem to be trending in wrong direction. Coaching staff seems to see it was well. JT 18:34 min/game first 7 games, 16:56 min/game last 7 games. Nylander 16:48 min/game first 7 games, 15:25 min/game last 7 games. This drop in ice-time is also concerning, as most of the minutes are going to L1. Run the risk of that top line burning out in a condensed season, if JT & Nylander don't pick it up a bit.

I would also like to re-iterate I'm a huge Nylander and Tavares fan, just haven't been too impressed with their 5v5 play together this year.

Nylander has been way better defensively this year and JT is snake bitten, he could easily have 10 goals right now as well but just hasn't scored at 5v5. You are looking into stuff too much and when you are playing as well as TO is playing, it doesn't serve anything to worry too much about small issues. Enjoy the ride, things are going to get better still. It's no secret this lineup is still being sorted, the good thing is it's flying high with room to grow. Better this than being a middling team with room to grow.

Re: JT - that's one way to look at it. Just bad luck!!

Or look at some numbers that shows he's shooting less at 5v5 then any other season but his rookie season - 7.31 shots/60 (for reference was 8.98 last year, 9.56 year before). Kind of concerning for a scorer. (also Nylander 5.34 shots/60 this year, was 9.17 last year, and 9.57 year before)

Tavares individual expected goals per 60 is the lowest mark of his career. 0.63 this year, 0.84 last year, 1.06 year before that. Pretty similar across the board for all his advanced stats.

Although one stat has gone way up!! 4.57 giveaways/60. Highest mark by far in his career. 2.6 last year, 2.73 year before that. Oh wait, we want that stat to go down.

All of this matches pretty close to the eye test, IMO.

If it was a few games, no biggie. But it's a quarter of a short season, so excuse me for not thinking everything is just roses and sunshine.

Again, considering his minutes are way lower then they've ever been with the Leafs, doesn't look like I'm the only one a bit worried about him (them).

Last point, are the Leafs actually playing well? Are we sure the close to 40% click they are scoring on the PP isn't hiding some flaws? I really don't want them to go into the playoffs hoping the refs give them 4 to 5 PPs per game in order for the Leafs to have success.

14 games is rather small, the sky is not falling.

Kerfoot 5v5 corsi is 45%. Hyman’s is 49%. Mikheyev is 44%. Simmonds 48%. Spezza 49%. But please continue to tell me how good they are.

They’re bad.

56 games is a rather small season.

Long story short, I don't doubt the Leafs are on the lookout for a middle 6 fwd, as the Leafs are being carried by their 1st line and their PP. Aside from a few mixes on the 4th line, every other line has struggled.

I'd prefer mgmt look into fixing some of the issues, rather than pull the "bury their head in the sand" approach.