Kickstart the Re-build Baby

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Créé par: Random2152

Équipe: 2020-21 Sharks de San Jose

Date de création initiale: 19 mai 2020

Publié: 19 mai 2020

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

Okay there is a lot to unpack here so bear with me.

The Karlsson trade is a revision of my earlier proposal. I worry that it might be too steep for PIT now but we will see. In general I would not be afraid of retaining money if I were the Sharks as the guys I am looking at moving (anyone making more than $6M) cost over half the cap for a LONG time. Retaining, even a lot to move them could help immensely during the re-build as much as it may hurt. You get a 1st and PoJo coming back as well as two guys to fill holes in the lineup until prospects are ready.

The MTL trade is another refinement of an idea I had earlier. I actually think you can get away with less retention on Vlasic (maybe only $1M) but I am structuring this closer to a worst case scenario cap wise to prove that these moves make sense no matter what. You lose Couture (and more importantly his contract) and are able to get a much younger Domi back to be apart of your new, younger core.

The Vancouver trade is moving another long contract for a shorter one and a decent player in return before that one goes bad. Helps Vancouver be better in the now and lets be real, Benning isn't good at cap management. Pearson is a decent forward and you get another cap dump plug to fill in until the prospects are ready.

I haven't yet figured out what I want to do about Burns. You only have 1 ret slot left and retaining on Burns would leave you with no flexibility for 5 years -so that is out of the question. I feel like Dallas might be a realistic option but I haven't been able to conjure up a trade that makes sense to me (any ideas would be appreciated).

Contract wise I went worst case scenario for the AAV'S.
Murray hasn't been good for awhile now but he is only 25 and you hope that he rebounds to form. I would not give him this contract but I keep seeing analyists say he will be looking for a raise so I went worst case and gave him a 5@5. A better and more realistic deal might be 2@4.

I believe in Labanc and he did the team a solid this year by taking a discount so we repay him with an 8 year contract that he hopefully lives up to.

Domi I genuinely have no idea what he will make, so I gave him a mid term guesstimate.

I signed TVR to help solidify this tanking and young D-core so that the kids can be sheltered a bit.

Obviously the idea here is to re-build the team. I know I traded fan favourites and good players too, but in order to move on you will need to lose the long term contracts, otherwise you have a high chance of being stuck in limbo for the majority of the decade. As someone who's team has done that - it isn't fun in the slightest.

Feedback would be nice but don't be a dick. I know this is beyond unliekly to happen but I really do think this team would be better set up to win in the future than your current squad.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Labanc, Kevin	8	6 000 000 $
Domi, Max	5	6 000 000 $
Murray, Matt	5	5 000 000 $
Middleton, Jake	2	750 000 $

UFA		ANS	CAP HIT
van Riemsdyk, Trevor		2	2 500 000 $

CRÉÉ		ANS	CAP HIT
Player, Guy		1	800 000 $
Player, Guy		1	800 000 $

Transactions

SJS

Alzner, Karl
Domi, Max [Droits de RFA]

MTL

Couture, Logan
Vlasic, Marc-Édouard (2 500 000 $ retained)

SJS

Pearson, Tanner
Sutter, Brandon
Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (VAN)

VAN

Kane, Evander

SJS

Bjugstad, Nick
Hörnqvist, Patric
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
Murray, Matt [Droits de RFA]
Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (PIT)

PIT

Karlsson, Erik (2 500 000 $ retained)
Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (SJS)

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Marc-Édouard Vlasic: 2 500 000 $ (35.71%)
Erik Karlsson: 2 500 000 $ (25%)

Enfoui

Karl Alzner: 3 550 000 $ (4 625 000 $)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
2021
2022

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
22	81 500 000 $	73 299 999 $	0 $	597 500 $	8 200 001 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Domi, Max 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2	Hertl, Tomas 5 625 000 $5 625 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 2	Meier, Timo 3 000 000 $3 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 3
Pearson, Tanner 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ AG UFA - 1	Bjugstad, Nick 2 050 000 $2 050 000 $ C, AD UFA - 1	Labanc, Kevin 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 4
Sörensen, Marcus 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Gambrell, Dylan 700 000 $700 000 $ C UFA - 1	Hörnqvist, Patric 5 300 000 $5 300 000 $ AD NTC UFA - 3
Gregor, Noah 768 333 $768 333 $ (65 000 $$65K) AG, AD RFA - 1	True, Alex 763 333 $763 333 $ (20 000 $$20K) C, AD UFA - 1	Sutter, Brandon 4 375 000 $4 375 000 $ AD, C M-NTC UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Simek, Radim 2 250 000 $2 250 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 4	Burns, Brent 5 280 000 $5 280 000 $ DD M-NTC UFA - 5	Murray, Matt 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ G UFA - 4
Ferraro, Mario 925 000 $925 000 $ (212 500 $$212K) DG UFA - 2	van Riemsdyk, Trevor 2 500 000 $2 500 000 $ DD UFA - 1	Jones, Martin 5 750 000 $5 750 000 $ G M-NTC UFA - 4
	Merkley, Ryan 863 333 $863 333 $ (300 000 $$300K) DD UFA - 3
Middleton, Jake 750 000 $750 000 $ DG UFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Player, Guy 800 000 $800 000 $
Player, Guy 800 000 $800 000 $

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 1

#26

Random2152

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Quoting: Subbanator7667

You realize that we were never contenders right? And that Bergevins original plan was to keep rebuilding, then he had a 2nd round dmen become a star defenceman, and Price entered his 3 years of godliness. There was no depth behind that and then he had to sell off picks to try and use that window, of course it didnt work and now he is back to where he actually wanted to be.

Both Suzuki and KK look like future top 6 centers. The line up you listed above is actually quite like able. Add in the top 10 pick we have this year and maybe 1 other prospect that makes the lineup just because it's the law of averages.

Danault is a top C 5v5, his offense isnt good enough to be a pp contributor but all his numbers 5v5 are among the best. Romanov is that d prospect.

The line up you just posted is actually probably more complete then most teams if you were to look that far into the future.

The Habs problem is a lack of top tier talent. You have good forward depth, even relative to the rest of the NHL but the thing that hold you back is a lack of true 1st line players. The only one I see on that roster that is a true 1st liner is Gally, and as long as this is the case you won't go anywhere is the Atlantic division With star studded teams like Toronto, Boston and Tampa Bay.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 2

#27

Random2152

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Quoting: HabsForEver

Oh, I understand hockey. You probably think Tavares was a good signing because "He's a franchise center". In reality, it was the worst move Dubas could've done. I'm sorry you're a Leafs fan.

You have to be trolling. I will not believe that someone like this could possibly exist

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 7

#28

Rob32sjsharks

Rejoint: avr. 2020

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Quoting: LumberJacques

The issue is that Couture hasn't really ever been his team's 1C, more of an elite 2C imo behind Thornton and/or Pavelski. Hell his best statistical season was 70 points in 18-19 (the same year Domi got 72) which doesn't mean that much considering Tomas Plekanec also had this mark as his best.

With Couture now in his 30's it must be expected that his play will begin to drop off, and with 7 years left on his contact it just doesn't seem like a smart idea to buy for maybe 1 or 2 years of good hockey.

Add in Vlasic, Weber and Price to the equation and imminent disaster seems the only destination within 2 years.

If adding an aging 1C is the idea I would rather target one with far less term left like Getzlaf or Kopitar (as unlikely as they are to accept a trade).

Couture has been the sharks 1C for like 4 years (Pavalski was listed as a C but played RW next to Couture)
But your comment on 70 point max season made me realize how much I have overvalued Couture in my head. I’m feeling like a MTL fan all the sudden

LumberJacques a aimé ceci.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 8

#29

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Adding more high priced 31 year old players, however good as they are, is the last thing the Habs should be doing right now......

Don't misconstrue them "trying" to win with trying to win at all costs. Habs are trying to win sure just like any team that isn;t full on rebuilding would but they aren't trying to win at all costs.

J2W, LumberJacques et Isles777 a aimé ceci.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 8

#30

Klara

Bad Take Bot v1.02

Rejoint: août 2019

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Quoting: BluesBandit

Haven’t seen many if any Sharks posts resigning, Melker. Why is that? What do you think he’d sign for?

Melker is really only a defensive forward, every season he has embraced that role more and more to the point he really only exists as a PK forward (which he is actually really god at). He really is just a 4th liner and the Sharks look to have Noesen as their set 4th line RW next season. The sharks were also shopping Melker at the deadline, but nothing came through after he was injured a few games before the deadline. He really never took off after a very effective rookie season (with the exception of the 2016 finals run). Arguably he was the worst full-time player on the sharks this year. I wouldn't sign him for anything more than 1yr 800k.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 10

#31

Random2152

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Quoting: F50marco

Oh I know. We've had this convo before. I am fully aware this will never happen. My point is, and always was that there was some logic to it.

Also I wanted some feedback on ANY OF THE OTHER 46 THINGS I DID FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

Thanks for the strike btw

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 12

#32

Rob32sjsharks

Rejoint: avr. 2020

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Quoting: Random2152

You have to be trolling. I will not believe that someone like this could possibly exist

Truth is he’s Probably a little mad MTL didn’t get him but I look at your lineup and if you could take his salary and add a stud defensemen who eats up 25 min a game of Allstate caliber d that your severely lacking and still have 2.5 mil to throw towards depth

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 13

#33

Random2152

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Quoting: Rob32sjsharks

Yeah, but exactly who was that player going to be? You want the Leafs to pass on ****ing JT on the hopes that in 4 years a stud UFA Dman will want to come home?

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 18

#34

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Quoting: Random2152

That logic is totally subjective. I think we both pretty much agreed that there isn't any logic to it if you know both won;t do it and that it doesn't make sense for the Habs right now...... Is Couture good? yes. Is Vlasic good? yes. Do they make sense to the Habs on the current contract they have? Absolutely not.

Well I'm not exactly obliged to have to give you feedback on all the 46 other things you've done either. I gave my feedback on the thing I feel the most able to give quality feedback on.

Your welcome.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 18

#35

HabsForEver

Rejoint: janv. 2019

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Quoting: Random2152

You have to be trolling. I will not believe that someone like this could possibly exist

Yep, what I thought. One of those guys who think whatever the Leafs do is the best possible option. If Lou was still in charge, Toronto would've won a cup by now. Dubas is just rolling with what Lou gave him and not making anything out of it, damn shame.

I'd love to see Marner win a cup, just sucks that he won't unless he's traded or walks when his contract is up.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 18

#36

LumberJacques

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: Random2152

You argue that Price and Weber's contracts make this less likely but I actually see it the other way. Your team has two time bombs on it already that are going to weigh you down for years. What is two more if it helps you win a cup now? You have a window already pre-built into your roster and these players don't affect it. I think that is why I think this move does have some logic behind it even if I wouldn't do it as a GM.

Specifically for J2W, MTL doesn't have serious cap issues for a number of years and are in what I describe as a uniquely capable position of dealing with the Vlasic and Couture contracts compared to the rest of the league. The next USTV deal will be signed soon and Covid wont last forever so the cap should be bouncing up soon enough.

To the first point I think Weber's contract gets overblown on here a lot. He gets paid next to nothing for the last 4 years and therefore doesn't have much incentive to go on if he can't keep up. In the mean time he's still the team's best Dman. Essentially it comes down to 2 more seasons and then possibly 1 more if he's still healthy enough (which doesn't look too likely given his recent visits to the infirmary).

Price is really the only contract that might be problematic, but as you stated the cap should eventually rise with the new TV deal so it should be livable. LTIR could be another option for him given his health over the last few years, which would eliminate the problem altogether (something I'll wager you Leafs fans know a thing or 2 about).

I do get the logic behind the move but to me personally the Vlasic deal, no matter how much is retained, is just a deal (and cap) killer. It's akin to adding Couture on a $12.5 million deal for the next 6 years. It would help in the short term, but not enough to win a cup and definitely hurt in the long term.

The landscape changes quickly in the NHL. The Leafs didn't think they would be needing cap space in the near future when they retained on Kessel but that decision is still taking a toll on them today. All MTL need to be in cap hell is for the guy they draft this season to become a superstar and they'll be just as tight against the cap as their neiboring rivals.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 26

#37

Random2152

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Quoting: F50marco

You know, since we are on the topic, I always found it funny how you allow users to go into threads and just totally derail them (trolling) while calling them out is what gets a strike.
Not my website but it certainly is interesting the crowd you pander to.
All it means for me is that I need to be more crafty when I call out idiots. Just make sure it goes all the way over your head.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 32

#38

LumberJacques

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: Rob32sjsharks

I don't think you overvalued Couture, he was and still is a terrific player who brings a complete game and good leadership. Every team needs those guys.

It's probably just a situation where he is worth a whole lot more to his current team than his stat line would indicate. (like Gallagher and Danault are to the Habs). You're right to value guys like that, they make the players around them better. They aren't easy to replace.

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20 mai 2020 à 0 h 38

#39

Rob32sjsharks

Rejoint: avr. 2020

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Quoting: Random2152

Yeah, but exactly who was that player going to be? You want the Leafs to pass on ****ing JT on the hopes that in 4 years a stud UFA Dman will want to come home?

No I agree with you and I would have signed him to at the time as well

Random2152 a aimé ceci.

20 mai 2020 à 0 h 43

#40

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Quoting: Random2152

Having a different opinion than yours does not equal trolling. I think you seem to not understand that.

Also calling them out by literally saying something against the rules, is not validating anything. You got a strike for insulting someone because you didn't like their opinion. Don't act like I'm pulling something out of my rear end. You did this to yourself.

Lol I'm not pandering to anyone. Don't be sour my comment didn't reflect your belief. Its ok, we're allowed to think different things. There's nothing wrong with it.

20 mai 2020 à 1 h 1

#41

Random2152

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Quoting: F50marco

I think you mis understand what I was saying. Your comment was fine by me and was not the subject of my previous post.

I should have clarified that I was using the word you in the general sense, as in the moderation team, not you as in yourself. By allowing trolls to continue to exist and striking down any who tell them off you foster a certain environment that invites the trolling you (general usage) loudly attempt to discourage.

Clearly attempting to de-rail a conversation (trolling) is not having a difference of opinion. You should know better than most that I am aware of the line considering I straddle it so often.
So tell me, what does Tavares and his contract have to do with a thread about a re-building Sharks team exactly?

In terms of doing this to myself, I am well aware and am not at all upset I got one. I knew when I posted it I was likely to receive one and made peace with it. My point is that by ignoring the comments which spark those reactions you allow users who continually make them to fester until it becomes the culture of the website. Hence the 'pandering to an interesting crowd'. If you (general usage) cannot detect when someone is skirting the rules attempting to de-rail a conversation and go after the reactions to those people, what use is a mod team? In case you haven't yet realised, the trolls own this site.

20 mai 2020 à 1 h 4

#42

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Quoting: Random2152

All it means for me is that I need to be more crafty when I call out idiots. Just make sure it goes all the way over your head.

Once again, calling out people is not against the rules but if you do, do so without the name calling because that is against the rules and keep in mind that even if you are "right" that doesn't mean they have to agree.

20 mai 2020 à 1 h 41

#43

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Quoting: Random2152

I disagree. The troll culture is encouraged when people RESPOND in kind. They only have power when you give it to them. You at multiple occasions stoked the fire when you could have easily reported, ignored and carried on.

You have continuously thrown jabs in virtually every comment you've made in this thread involving Habs players, Habs management, Habs fans, etc towards what I assume is Habs fans and when someone fought you on it, you responded in kind. You are as much to blame as anyone in this thread my friend. If this thread is derailed, you certainly jumped on the train with them. I don't think its derailed by the way. Plenty of discussion to be had but choose how you respond to others more carefully. There was no need for a lot of what transpired.

The mods can't be in every thread at all times watching over everything. We need you, the posters to help police yourselves by reporting and not engaging in the extracurriculars. if you do, then don't be surprised when the person who reacts and actually crosses the line is dinged. Can't give infractions for having a bad take that you disagree with. I can if you insult that person though. Nothing in this thread started out as derailing until both of you brought it off the tracks, together.

20 mai 2020 à 1 h 49

#44

Random2152

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Quoting: F50marco

Maybe there is a rule I am not aware of, but the comments that start it skirt them nicely, which is the whole point.
You know what it is far too late for this

20 mai 2020 à 4 h 58

#45

pharrow

Banni

Rejoint: juin 2018

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MTL and PIT turn these trades down.
That Vlasic contract is awful.
And the Penguins have no room for EK.
Marino is not a 3rd pairing guy, he came to Pittsburgh to play.
Only way they would even consider this is if they moved Letang. But they aren't dumping Letang for EK.

20 mai 2020 à 8 h 11

#46

yanp007

Rejoint: mai 2016

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Quoting: Random2152

Habs fans overvalue their players more than any other fanbase and quite frankly your GM isn't smart. This is absolutely something you guys would do if you wanted to win now.

Really take a look to Couture numbers, he's 31, 8M for 7 more years and average of 50pts / season over the last 5 seasons
Domi is 25, next contract around 6M, average of 50 pts / season over the last 5 seasons...

20 mai 2020 à 8 h 36

#47

Subbanator7667

Subbanator

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Quoting: Random2152

Yeah, but exactly who was that player going to be? You want the Leafs to pass on ****ing JT on the hopes that in 4 years a stud UFA Dman will want to come home?

You dont pass on signing JT, pure and simple. You do however have to realize that he is about to inflate the value of your other players a year before you have to sign them to a new contract.

I mean he got so many guys paid on the Island that the team is still suffering for those contracts that were handed out. And it happened again in TO, he came in and all of a sudden Marner is a 90 point guy, he probably would have gotten there eventually but it was another 2 or 3 years away. They were lucky Nylander was signed after JT signed to, his contract would be in the 8+ range of he had gotten a full season in JTs wing before signing it.

20 mai 2020 à 8 h 56

#48

F50marco

Rejoint: mai 2015

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Quoting: Random2152

Maybe there is a rule I am not aware of, but the comments that start it skirt them nicely, which is the whole point.
You know what it is far too late for this

No, you understand the rules correctly. "Skirting" the line, at least from what I think you mean by it, is at its core allowed. No one is allowed to cross that line however.

You even said yourself that you need to get more creative with it. So if it flies over my head, it flies over my head but I can't guarantee it'll fly over the heads of the numerous other mods on the site so tread at your own peril there.

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