16 jan 2018
Canadiens de Montréal
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mhockey91</b></div><div>Wingers who are better: Drouin, Domi (if he plays wing), Tatar (who will be traded), Gallagher. So yeah he’s definitely up there.</div></div>
Tampa was the best offensive team in the league, and Gourde's production with them would have placed him 8th on MTL, and I wouldn't call a player with bottom 6 production one of a teams better wingers. If he bounces back sure he could push for that label, but right now he is closer to Lehkonen than top 6, and given he broke into the NHL at 26 and has declined both seasons since I don't see him as more than what he is right now, which is a 3rd liner even on MTL who need offense. Also, Armia (who is younger and therefore atleast as likely to repeat his production as Gourde is to regain his form) was better this year also, so that's 5 wingers (Domi or Suzuki plays wing) on MTL next season, again making Gourde a 3rd line winger.
TL;dr, Gourde is unlikely to be top 6, aka one of the better wingers, on MTL next season unless they are a bottom feeder selling off everything they can, in which case they should be using cap space as a way to aquire young assets. This doesn't mean I think he is bad, it just means that I find the statement that he would be one of MTL's better wingers false.
Gourde's less than a year younger than Tatar, so if Tatar's ask is resonable it's a better idea to use the cap space on him.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mhockey91</b></div><div>Gourde this year struggled but when he puts up 50-60+ points like the last two years his contract looks fine. This would be an opportunity where a team could buy low on him because of a down year.</div></div>
I'm not saying he isn't a good buy low candidate, I'm saying that at 28 with his cap hit and term he's a massive risk for any team to aquire, and with the season he just had he's more of a comparable to Lehkonen than he is a potential top winger for MTL. Again, in relation to MTL, he would barely be an offensive upgrade on Lehkonen (who again, is younger than Gourde was when he had those 50-60 point seasons) if his decline is because of his age and he doesn't bounce back, while he is more than twice the cap hit. 5 more years at over 5M for a guy who had a 60 point season at age 26, with no NHL impact before that, and has declined in the 2 following years is, to hammer the point home again, a massive risk.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Wqrrior</b></div><div>Greenway/Ek > Lehkonen. Stalock > Juulsen. And Brodin > Domi. (Though I'll give you that Brodin as a UFA balances it) Of course they wouldn't take that. Lehkonen is also largely overvalued by habs fans. He's more of a bottom six player than either of those I offered.
There might be a difference between a 2nd line center and a third line center, but you are enlarging it to be far more drastic than it should be. Also I am trading for his rights here, not a set contract. He might demand so much money that MTL won't want to sign him and that they are forced to trade him for the sake of the team long term.
If he was already signed and there was more clarity on what his contract picture was like, a reasonable contract would warrant him a higher return.</div></div>
Lehkonen is also a 3rd line winger, of similar age to Greenway and Ek, and while less talented offensively is better defensively, pick what you value more in your bottom 6 and that's who has more value. Personally I would go Ek-Lehkonen-Greenway, but to each their own. Backups have less value than they should, simply because some prospect could jump out of nowhere and make the trade a waste of value, and while Juulsen does have low value do to injury with Primeau and the Demchenko signing it's doubtful MTL views him as less valuable than a backup during the offseason.
Brodin would be a rental who could leave for nothing if his ask is to high or just if he feels like it, while even Domi's rights give you value because he is an RFA, so Domi has more value than Brodin without an extension.
Seriously though, you're overvaluing Wild players, while trying to be on a high horse about Habs fans overvaluing Habs players. Look at past deals for young 50 point RFA centers, they don't come this cheap. Rentals cost more.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Wqrrior</b></div><div>The only part about Domi in their assessment that I agree with is that they don't NEED to move him. However, I would have to say his value has peaked and will be on the decline, so I make these trades actually for their benefit. Domi is a 2nd liner at best... a 40 -50 point support guy... he isn't carrying a line.
His value should be around the same as what VGK traded Tatar for... a first, second and third. Greenway holds the value of a first, Stalock a 3rd (and fills a desperate need for MTL), and potentially a pair of 2nds if he lives up to the supposed value he carries.
It's funny how if a mediocre to average player spends any time with the Habs their value suddenly skyrockets. If MTL was BUYING Domi from any other team, I bet they'd be doing it for a pair of 2nds and that's all.</div></div>
Glass houses man, you talk about MTL fans overvaluing players while saying Greenway, a 23 year old bottom 6 winger, is worth a 1st. And Stalock doesn't really do much, at least until part way into the season considering Primeau and the signing of Demchenko.
Also, Domi has, based on points per game, been on pace for 50 every season but 1, so saying 40-50 point guy comes off as an undersell, even if it's accurate do him having some injury issues. I mean he was on pace for 50 this season and even non MTL fans are saying it was a down season, not just a regression but a down season. Domi is better, younger, and an RFA when compared to Tatar at the time of the Vegas trade, so he would be worth more.
A comparison would be Lehkonen, Juulsen and a 2nd for Brodin, Wild fans would be rightly insulted.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>See, a reasonable habs fan. I knew in such a big fan base one had to exist. There's stats to back that up, but since EH made their RAPM charts patrons only, I cannot display it like I used to. All I can say is that when he was put in the top 4 after injuries, he flourished majorly, including becoming 2nd on the team (among the active defenders, so not above Dougie or Pesce) in xGA only to Slavin, and really started to put in solidified defensive performances. He also broke his goal duck this year, which is a useless stat for defenders, but it's a good achievement. He's done all this with a really low PDO. His offensive output would probably have been higher if Carolina had any form of offensive depth scoring this year. His xGF was really good, not Dougie or Gardiner good, but above someone like Pesce or Slavin still. That being said, please take this with a grain of salt, his sample size isn't the largest.</div></div>