BLAME ARMSTRONG

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Quoting: Mike7856

Could've offered him the 8th year tho, rumors around town are that he would've signed 7.5 x 8 to stay but Armstrong wouldn't give him a full NMC.

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29 févr. à 14 h 12

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Quoting: Mike7856

Rumor was 7.5 would have done it, but it was "philosophical differences" (ie, Doug would give him a NMC)

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29 févr. à 14 h 12

Mike7856

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Quoting: HolyJumpin81

Rumor was 7.5 would have done it, but it was "philosophical differences" (ie, Doug would give him a NMC)

Oof then yeah, I’d be pissed too

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29 févr. à 14 h 14

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Lets Go Blues

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Quoting: Mike7856

Oof then yeah, I’d be pissed too

It was the first domino that led us to this mediocre, directionless roster build.

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29 févr. à 14 h 16

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First of all, step back from the ledge about our prospects, buddy. Lindstein is far better than Gunny (who isn't a bad thing btw). Develop is not a straight line, sometimes demotions are just to allow the kid to play top minutes with top responsibilities before he comes back. Dvorsky will again give us two 1Cs, a rare advantage.

As for the defense, I keep saying this, it's not all about "the defense" crew. So much of the blame lies with the forwards it's not funny. Schenn by himself turns the puck over in/at our zone more than all our Dmen besides Krug put together. And when it is the Dmen, it's often not even the D part. It's the puck decisions part. Turning over the puck at our line to give the other team a 2 on 0 or passing straight to their unmarked guy in the slot are not really "D" matters. Puck decisions are the #1 problem plaguing the Blues, both this season and last. We're too cute too often. That's not how we're meant to play. We're not meant to be reckless with the puck and then chase it all night. We need puck control, and this group is way too careless. Silly mistakes with no pressure and everything. Hard to blame the D or the G when they keep getting these impossible situations thrown at them.

If we cannot move Krug, just buy him out prior to UFA day. Grab Forsling. That one change would change SO much. We need to play the offseason smarter than we've played the regular season. Past decisions are gone, we go from here.

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29 févr. à 14 h 19

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Heres the thing. Your'e absoluteley correct on a lot of it. I beg to argue something else: the people around him. Peter Freaking Chiarelli is in this mans ear in every video, hes VP for Hockey Operations. The organizational staff has gone way downhill. It is so uncharacteristic of Doug to sign a ton of #2-3s to the same deal. However, I think the cup run doubled down to Doug the idea that the way to win is on depth and not talent, as its always been with Blues hockey. We'll never know why Faulk even got traded here in the first place, but there was a ripple effect on defense to led to what you see today. I do find it frustrating how stubborn these old school GM's can be, and I think thats what worries me. I don't think these old school guys are capable of a rebuild/retool when your entire franchise is run by them or in the case of Chiarelli, bums. All in all it was just death by 1000 cuts that led to what you see today.

Nobody ever talks about the offense tho and how that is lost all its depth and the core aged out, leads only top line talent left. Its clear retool is focused more on offense than defense, as it should in my opinion.

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29 févr. à 14 h 20

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Quoting: mokumboi

THANK YOU. Doug literally said 2023 was the cores last dance. Its clear that the weakness is the offense. Honestly watching this team the blue line gets absolutely no help from most of the forwards (besides a few)

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29 févr. à 14 h 21

#10

WJC_Enthusiast

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Yeah, letting Pietrangelo go was shocking. He could've, SHOULD'VE, and I would argue, WOULD'VE gone down in history as a top 5-10 Blues of all time no doubt. I will never understand why Armstrong let him go.

29 févr. à 14 h 23

#11

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Quoting: mokumboi

First of all, step back from the ledge about our prospects, buddy. Lindstein is far better than Gunny (who isn't a bad thing btw). Develop is not a straight line, sometimes demotions are just to allow the kid to play top minutes with top responsibilities before he comes back.

As for the defense, I keep saying this, it's not all about "the defense" crew. So much of the blame lies with the forwards it's not funny. Schenn by himself turns the puck over in/at our zone more than all our Dmen besides Krug put together. And when it is the Dmen, it's often not even the D part. It's the puck decisions part. Turning over the puck at our line to give the other team a 2 on 0 or passing straight to their unmarked guy in the slot are not really "D" matters. Puck decisions are the #1 problem plaguing the Blues, both this season and last. We're too cute too often. That's not how we're meant to play. We're not meant to be reckless with the puck and then chase it all night. We need puck control, and this group is way too careless. Silly mistakes with no pressure and everything. Hard to blame the D or the G when they keep getting these impossible situations thrown at them.

If we cannot move Krug, just buy him out prior to UFA day. Grab Forsling. That one change would change SO much. We need to play the offseason smarter than we've played the regular season. Past decisions are gone, we go from here.

Lindstein is David Runblad if he isn't Carl Gunnarsson. Maybe I'm exaggerating the prospect part but it's impossible to judge for a few more years. I just don't see much to get hyped about.

You're getting into the weeds when you talk about puck decisions; look at the big picture and tell me that replacing Krug with Forsling is gonna make this team a contender. 3 guys on pace to eclipse 45 pts. 21st in goals, 15th in goals against while getting the absolute max performance from the goalie tandem. Anyone who needs to be moved can decline the trade. This team is stuck in the mud my friend.

29 févr. à 14 h 24

#12

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Quoting: A_K

It was the first domino that led us to this mediocre, directionless roster build.

I'd argue it was Faulk. But then again, the reason were in a retool is mainly offense not defense.

29 févr. à 14 h 28

#13

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Quoting: HolyJumpin81

Regardless, there was a stronger defense already in place and Army went out of his way to downgrade from Petro/Dunn/Walman to Faulk/Krug/Leddy. The forwards definitely deserve some criticism - and thankfully I do think help is on the way - but this roster construction was never going to work.

29 févr. à 14 h 30

#14

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Quoting: A_K

I mean it did in 2022 though, with basically the same defense as now. It was the offensive depth and firepower that once it disintegrated, it was over (Perron, Orielly, Tarasenko, Schenn). Not saying Dougs a genius hes made some horrific mistakes (Petro being the worst), and I agree about the blueline.

29 févr. à 14 h 32

#15

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Quoting: A_K

1 - Dude, what?? No clue what you're missing. I used to think he was a less mean Ekholm. I may have undersold him.

2 - First of all, I did not say that one D change make us a contender. More importantly, puck decisions affect every single thing you mentioned and every single thing you didn't. Handling of the puck touches every aspect of the game, in both directions, PLUS the mental part of the game. Puck decisions are everything. Whether your roster is in a transition phase or contending, puck decisions can make you or doom you. That's not the weeds. That's the forest.

29 févr. à 14 h 43

#16

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Quoting: mokumboi

Ok, if they just made better decisions with the puck, they'd be good. Unfortunately the summation of puck decisions is what equates to the quality of the player, and that's hard to change.

Regardless of how hopeful you are that the roster can transition into something better, is it unfair to say that the GM galaxy-brained the last 5 years? Is he not allowed to receive criticism for his terrible contracts? A rebuild/retool/re-whatever - that was always going to happen in the "window" world that the cap produces - would be much easier if there wasn't a massive amount of money owed to under-performers.

29 févr. à 14 h 48

#17

BDHockey

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Quoting: HolyJumpin81

I'd argue it was Faulk. But then again, the reason were in a retool is mainly offense not defense.

Quoting: mokumboi

I would agree that the lack of secondary scoring is the main reason we are not competitive right now, which in my opinion is because

First Line: Gets a little cute sometimes, when they could make more direct plays. Hard to really fault their level of scoring though.
2nd: Struggles start any cycling and possess the puck in a meaningful way.
3: often times barely noticeable. Basically any image I have of this line is Hayes trying to plow through the neutral zone then dumping or turning the puck over at the blue line.
4: Actually cycles and forechecks well, but unfortunately lacks any really shooting talent besides when Torpo has a moment.

On the other hand though, our forward pool looks great and as much as I am optomistic about Lindstein we have literally nothing else.

29 févr. à 14 h 51

#18

TheEarthmaster

Good Opinion Haver

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Quoting: HolyJumpin81

They thing you have to remember about 21-22 is that every single member of the Blues forward group had a shooting percentage of like 900% and Ville Husso had a season on par with the one BInnington is having right now. They did that year what Seattle did last year, and here we are with Seattle's roster barely changed from when they beat the reigning cup champs in the playoffs and they're lower in the standings than the Blues right now.

You simply could not have built a sustainable cup contender with this defense, unless you had a consistently elite goaltender and an overpowered collection of forwards. The Blues have neither.

29 févr. à 14 h 53

#19

CantStopWontStop

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Modifié 29 févr. à 15 h 13

I don’t take issue with much, but I aim differently.

GMDA and the Blues record of drafting and development stands on its own, so things like Burns and Stenberg are hard to criticize.

My issue is that Doug Armstrong went to the draft floor last year intending to retool the roster, and did not.

At the previous trade deadline he took all the center ice minutes, except Robert Thomas, and traded them away. The replacement? 1 center who needed another team to pay half his pay due to being meh.

So now stl leads in cumulative wjc u20 scoring. That’s a huge waste for our organization, we have no business having that much firepower in non nhl leagues. He should have done his job, used some of that to have a better active roster.

What was the point of Vrána? When it was clear he was not working, the replacement is?

During the season we’ve had countless games where scandella, or another lefty, is on the right so perunovich can get minutes. Fine. I guess. Except it’s not. It’s routinely punished by other teams. The jets got 2 goals dumping the puck to scandellas side and watching the blues screw it up. The next night, the blues play the oilers, use normal defense pairs, and surprise?! The team can break out of its zone normally and the game is competitive.

So he had that deadline, the draft floor, and whiffed. Now he has a trade deadline. If he whiffs again, fire him. Maybe he’s pissed off too many of his peers, or they don’t trust him, whatever.

I hope it’s embarrassing for him. He’s been a smug pos the last 2 years or so. Dude thinks he is waaaay fancier than he really is.

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29 févr. à 14 h 55

#20

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Quoting: A_K

1 - The problem with your viewpoint on this is almost all of these players have previously made good puck decisions. Sometimes excellent. They've done it before. They know how. They're not executing, not focusing, whatever. They can do better with this important part of the game. So yes, if puck decisions get smart again, they will be a better team with better results and better analytics and better everything. More goals, fewer goals against. The best D is wearing teams out down in their corners etc etc. The whole system is predicated on smart decisions and care with the puck. As most systems are.

2 - Brother, I've ragged on all these same GM moves, and also some everyone ragged me over for ragging them. People tore me a new one when I said the Leddy trade was an abomination and Army's worst. They savaged me. I've moaned about it for a while. But other than pointing to what needs fixing, none of it actually matters when discussing the path ahead to take. We're here now. It is what it is. We need a good plan. That's where I'm at, I hope that's where Army is at.

But look... where was Vancouver last season? Or Winnipeg? Or in the other direction, New Jersey? A lot can change in an offseason. Frankly, this season has proved to me that we are not near as far away as some folks bellow. If we have a needs-meeting jackpot offseason like we did in 2018, led by a Krug exodus, things will look a lot sunnier fast.

Still gonna need to care for the puck, though. Job #1.

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29 févr. à 14 h 56

#21

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Quoting: BDHockey

You just fully endorsed my point on lines 2 and 3. The whole points you made on those two were only about puck decisions. And you're right!

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29 févr. à 15 h 0

#22

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Quoting: TheEarthmaster

I mean I think in reality Doug and many old school GM's think thats how you in hockey games. Sucks, but as Blues fans thats what we have to work with. Especially in small markets. I agree its not a way to win sustainably but they'd have a batter chance if the offense was as good as it was then.

29 févr. à 15 h 8

#23

TheEarthmaster

Good Opinion Haver

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Quoting: HolyJumpin81

I'd argue it was Faulk. But then again, the reason were in a retool is mainly offense not defense.

Quoting: mokumboi

The floor would be higher if they had better forwards, but I still think you'd would be building on a rotten foundation with the defense. I'm not saying they couldn't make the playoffs, or even win a round or two with this defense, but you're not building a sustainable cup contender if the centerpiece of the defense is 30 year old Colton Parayko- a player I have a lot of time for- let alone the bloated support staff.

I don't disagree with the fact that their immediate problems are with scoring, but that was a die they more or less intentionally cast. They traded all the forwards who were, though old, still top 6 players and then replaced them with guys who were either on waivers or headed that way. So this was predictable, if not outright expected. They have a bunch of forward reinforcements coming though, while the defense is exactly the same. That's still the area that needs the most work.

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29 févr. à 15 h 11

#24