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Lets Go Blues
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30 juin 2016
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Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 23 heures
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AC14</b></div><div>Disgusting to say that Dunn was future Krug and we needed established Krug more - That's not what I was saying. What I was saying was Dunn at the time could not be trusted whatsoever in the defensive zone. They tried it, it was a mess. We needed a PPQB once Pietrangelo left - another mistake that I believe is very heavily tied to trading for Faulk, and for some reason not giving Pietrangelo a NMC. We were in a competitive window and you should look at the production and numbers Krug has put up, he's a top end point producer, or at least was until last year.

They did the same thing with Dunn, he'd try 10 stretch passes and create tons of offense, but got scapegoated because one would lead to a turnover. - This is the result of being in a competitive window and being a team that is not in a competitive window. We have been outside of a competitive window for probably one season. I would argue at the start of last season we too were believed to be in a competitive window. They make a mistake and they were benched, it's a team that's trying to compete at a high level. Detroit had the ability to allow him to grow. Seattle had the ability to let Dunn grow. Their results were much better than the standard they played to last season.

in regards to your final paragraph. I'm not sure why you are quick to write off or champion a prospect after a half a season in their D+1. Lets also just completely overlook the fact that out of that Stenberg as a May birthday 18 year old just had an outstanding WJC on a silver medal team whereas, aside from Brindley, none of those players were selected. Yes USA was stacked but Sweden was also a very high end team. Stenberg was also drafted off of the back of a fantastic Hlinka Gretzky Cup where i believe he was the captain. You are complaining about getting a pretty high end prospect as opposed to getting a different good looking prospect. Potential is the biggest fallacy around. How many guys fully tap into their potential? And how many prospects are tap into a potential that isn't perceived at a certain time? There's a very distinct advantage to drafting younger players in the class, they are many months behind in their development compared to other members of the class. I don't know about you but I'll take the guy that has proven himself multiple times against peers that's behind in development due to age at pick 25. If your standoff from him is he isn't 6'2 or playing in a league you are more familiar with I don't know what to tell you.</div></div>

Alright I should’ve left out the part out about the prospects. You’re approaching this with way too level of a head and I was steaming red enough to rant about it on here lol. Stenberg has plenty of runway, so does Lindstein. I just wouldn’t have complained if they went something like Musty and Gulyayev who I think have much more talent to work with if they can put it all together. My real gripe is with the later picks but that’s always a crap shoot.

I understand your argument about how you can’t have long leashes with players when the team is competitive but I just don’t see how the guys he brought in were the correct answers. He fumbled the defense and it forced him to retool quicker than he should have. Now I worry that his retool isn’t going to work and we’ll stay stuck in mediocrity. But hey this is what we’ve got so let’s see how it goes.
Forum: Armchair-GMHier à 16 h 20
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AC14</b></div><div>Some very hot takes taken here without looking at context of what was going on at the time. Alot of these moves were made out of the necessity of trying to stay in a cup window.

Faulk is the only move I can criticize because it didn't make any sense to bring him in given what we currently had. I'd imagine the market for top 4 defenseman was pretty dry at the time ad we wanted to add more boost. However neither Faulk nor Pietrangelo played great on the left side. It was frankly terrible to watch and a complete mess.

You're looking from the future on alot of these situations. I loved Vince Dunn, but he was essentially Torey Krug on an small deal at the time of the expansion draft. Yes he was a better skater, but he was a mess defensively and we were in a very competitive window at the time. I think everyone thought that Seattle would take Tarasenko in the expansion draft not Dunn.

Walman also could not stay in the lineup. He was inconsistent and not really all that impactful. For Walman and Dunn if you want to criticize a lack of knowing what they had, sure. But we weren't in a position to deal with mistakes of younger players as we were in a presumed window.

I'm not sure what exactly your criticism of the drafting is about. The Blues by many standards have had fantastic drafts for the recent memory. I'm also not sure why you're complaining about Stenberg who is very young for the class and has performed extremely well on the international stage. The Blues have drafted young players for the class who have perceived high floors. Are you going to hit a superstar with that, I dont know, but we have 2 very high end prospects in our pool, and we recently just had the most amount of prospects at the WJC (tied) and had some of the best production (definitely weighted by amount of forwards). That's discounting the impact that noted High Floor, Poor Skating Jake Neighbors is currently having. Bolduc is at the NHL level currently at 20 years old. Lindstein was a late 1st who in a redraft probably goes early/mid 1st round. I just don't see the complaint or worry in regards to the Blues drafting young for their class, high floor guys. There is very little volatility and a high chance these players are NHL players. The chances of 1st round draft picks especially at the positions we've been picking them to turn out the way ours have are extremely slim. There's only a couple of other teams I think draft to the level or better than the Blues, and that's Vegas and Carolina.</div></div>

There's no benefit of hindsight on any of these tacky extensions. Simply don't sign them. Choose better players. The argument that we needed to keep the window open is fair, except the guys that were supposed to keep the window open are the ones slamming it shut.

Disgusting to say that Dunn was future Krug and we needed established Krug more. Even at the time there was no argument to spend 7 x 6.5m on Krug and expose Dunn. None. This organization just can't identify what makes a quality defenseman.

Walman sucked here because the Blues staff neutered him into oblivion. Play 10 min per night with Bortuzzo and don't make a single mistake or you'll go to the press box. Dude went to Detroit and all his quotes were "I'm just happy to play my game and be comfortable out there". They did the same thing with Dunn, he'd try 10 stretch passes and create tons of offense, but got scapegoated because one would lead to a turnover.

We'll see about the draft picks, it's early, but my point is that we don't need "NHLers", we need impact guys. Getting two extra 1st round picks and then using them on safe players. He ADMITTED PUBLICLY that he thought Lindstein was comparable to Gunnarsson, a 16 min per night no.5. Dman... and Stenberg going right before Musty, Ritchie, Cowan, Nadeau, Brindley, Cristall... we'll see in a few years if you'll still defend that one. I'd rather see us strike out on guys with upside that never make it than pat a guy's back for getting us the next Brandon Saad or Oskar Sundqvist.
Forum: Armchair-GMHier à 14 h 43
Forum: Armchair-GMHier à 14 h 23
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>First of all, step back from the ledge about our prospects, buddy. Lindstein is far better than Gunny (who isn't a bad thing btw). Develop is not a straight line, sometimes demotions are just to allow the kid to play top minutes with top responsibilities before he comes back.

As for the defense, I keep saying this, it's not all about "the defense" crew. So much of the blame lies with the forwards it's not funny. Schenn by himself turns the puck over in/at our zone more than all our Dmen besides Krug put together. And when it is the Dmen, it's often not even the D part. It's the puck decisions part. Turning over the puck at our line to give the other team a 2 on 0 or passing straight to their unmarked guy in the slot are not really "D" matters. Puck decisions are the #1 problem plaguing the Blues, both this season and last. We're too cute too often. That's not how we're meant to play. We're not meant to be reckless with the puck and then chase it all night. We need puck control, and this group is way too careless. Silly mistakes with no pressure and everything. Hard to blame the D or the G when they keep getting these impossible situations thrown at them.

If we cannot move Krug, just buy him out prior to UFA day. Grab Forsling. That one change would change SO much. We need to play the offseason smarter than we've played the regular season. Past decisions are gone, we go from here.</div></div>

Lindstein is David Runblad if he isn't Carl Gunnarsson. Maybe I'm exaggerating the prospect part but it's impossible to judge for a few more years. I just don't see much to get hyped about.

You're getting into the weeds when you talk about puck decisions; look at the big picture and tell me that replacing Krug with Forsling is gonna make this team a contender. 3 guys on pace to eclipse 45 pts. 21st in goals, 15th in goals against while getting the absolute max performance from the goalie tandem. Anyone who needs to be moved can decline the trade. This team is stuck in the mud my friend.
Forum: Armchair-GM1 févr. à 17 h 14
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>qc14</b></div><div>I appreciate the thought in your description but at the end of the day all of these arguments are meaningless. NHL teams decide whether they're going to trade a player or not, then worry about price -- there's no magical 'godfather' offer or breaking point at which they make decisions like that. IF (and that's a big if) the Blues decide to trade Buch, the return will be extremely predictable.

At the end of the day, he is a good (even very good!) player but not a superstar approaching 30. Those players ALWAYS go for exactly 1 first, 1 a B- to B+ prospect, and salary filler to make the deal work. Sometimes you get that extra second, sometimes you don't. Lindholm is just the latest in a long line of the exact same returns for this level of player. Horvat, Meier, DeBrincat, Bertuzzi, ROR, Tarasenko, Fiala, Giroux, Tofolli, Reinhart, Mantha are all just forward examples from the last 3 years. Add H. Lindholm, Orlov, Kuemper in there as well for even more comps or if you want to stretch back the time period a bit add in Zucker, Stone, Pacioretty, Hall, K Hayes as well.

The ONLY players who have been moved for significantly more than this are Eichel and Tkachuk -- two players who could make legitimate claims to being top 10 forwards in the league both now and at the time they were traded -- and Brandon Hagel, who had a uniquely low cap hit / buyer in Tampa. I think Buchnevich is certainly towards the higher end of players in that first group, but definitely not in the Eichel/Tkachuk tier.

The final thing I'd say is about "cap dumps." A cap dump is taking on a bad contract (especially one with many years left) in exchange for picks. Most trades for big players don't involve dumps but rather salary filler. Guys who probably are overpaid/paid for too long but are necessarily taken back to facilitate a deal. Think Craig Smith to WSH last year in the Orlov deal, Rutta/Granlund/Petry/Hoffman in the Karlsson deal, Beauvillier in the Horvat deal, and most recently Kuzmenko in the Lindholm deal. These players do not increase the value that a team gets back for taking them - it's just the cost of doing business. Ceci/Forbort/Atkinson all fall into this category and would not increase the amount of futures needed for a deal. Even Kuznetsov is bordering right on that level for that proposal, and certainly wouldn't add a whole other first rounder.</div></div>

Can't argue about the salary + B prospect + late 1st package for a 1yr rental, but Buch would be a 2-yr rental, at either 5.8m or 2.9m. If no one wants to offer better than the stock rental package, no reason to do it until next season.
Forum: Armchair-GM19 janv. à 15 h 47
Forum: Armchair-GM17 janv. à 12 h 36