If Calgary is retaining on Markstrom and not getting a 1st while also taking on a cap dump Conroy failed big time

just since there's no 1st doesn't make it a bad trade. Calgary wants young assets and gets a huge one with Holtz. The 2nds can be used or flipped for young players, and Vanacek isn't a cap dump, he still can be a starting goalie if he finds his form.

VV is absolutely a cap dump in this scenario. Getting him back still doesn't open up a spot for Wolf

I'm aware who Holtz is, but the issue is Calgary has far too many wingers and winger prospects already. Holtz is fine because of his potential but you also included Stillman who will struggle to ever make the lineup before he looses waiver exemption.

I think if you replaced Stillman and the 2nds with the 2024 1st and Bahl or a similar defense prospect it's probably what Calgary would want

Yeah NJD isn't offering Bahl, our currently 15th overall 1st, and Holtz unless you plan on throwing in hanifin as well

Honestly, I agree with you. Drop Holtz, take the 1st!

Are you sure Hannifin signs an extension in Detroit instead of Boston???

There is a lot of talk about him going to Boston wether it comes by a trade or a UFA signing!!!!!!

You can't really say he signs in Detroit with any degree of accuracy.

Disagree, VV allows Wolf to easily take the reins. Easy transition.

You had too many wingers when you took on the Kuzmenko cap dump

That's cool man, your poor takes have never affected me before.

Huh? Taking VV back means we still have 2 other goalies signed next year. So we would still have to find a way to move on from one of VV or Vladar

Actually no, we lost Dube ~15 days before that (not defending him) and then shifted Sharangovich to center too. Kuzmenko is also not a long term commitment and will probably be flipped some time in the next year. So no we didn't add more to the winger glut when acquiring Kuzmenko

Holtz and Stillman are long term pieces though. Of our winger prospects Stillman would be below all of Coronato, Zary, and Pelletier. Maybe Honzek too. Stillman will lose exemption by the 26/27 season and unless he is a 4th liner he probably isn't making the Flames lineup over any of the aformentioned 3 plus Huberdeau, Holtz, or Coleman.

I think the NJD deal gets you Markstrom, but no retention. The valuable part here is the cap space differential between Markstrom and VV. I'm only saying this on the strength of their performance this year as VV was WAAAAYYYYY better than Markstrom last year (short memories everyone??). Remember that the NJD are a horrendous defensive team, and Calgary is way better. I think that Calgary does this deal with no retention and VV's save percentage goes back to .910 in Calgary.

Vancouver does that deal, but moves the 2nd rounder to 2026. Everyone wants draft capital next year.

I'm not sure that Detroit deal is enough to get Hanifin. It'll get beat by someone else.

Have you seen how many wingers Calgary has right now and in their pipeline? There are only two natural centers on the roster and no decent prospects at C. They have two decent D prospects and nothing else. I don't see Holtz as a fit.

CGy would be better off getting a legit Center prospect from another team, and a 1st + for Markstrom

And which team is offering that?? Go try and ask for another teams top prospect+1st and get laughed out of the room

“We have too many wingers but also we don’t have too many wingers”

Also Stillman is a 4th liner. That’s going to be his role. He’s not supposed to be a top 6 skill guy.

Holtz being a top 6 caliber prospect is the only reason he is a fit over most winger prospects. Our glut is in the middle 6 but Holtz would be a prospect I take the risk on to be a top 6 caliber guy. I don't think there are enough teams offering center prospects out there for Markstrom. Buffalo would maybe make Savoie available but at 5'9 odds are he ends up as a winger in the NHL anyways. I also doubt Marky would waive to Buffalo.

When it comes to our pending UFA's like Hanifin and Tanev we can be more picky on positional need but not so much with Markstrom

Buffalo isn’t buying a goalie UPL has been fantastic this year (better than Markstrom since December) and they have Levi in the wings lmao

Then perhaps the Calgary fanbase can go bother Carolina with their ridiculous asks

Your reading comprehension skills are showing again. We have too many middle 6 wingers right now and moving forward. Right now Pelletier is playing on the 4th line and he is not a 4th liner. Coronato is pretty much NHL too ready but there is no space for him on the roster. Huberdeau is the only true 1st line caliber player on the Flames roster. Realistically Calgary is probably going to end up selling at least 2/3 of Kuzmenko, Sharangovich, and Mangiapane by the TDL next year, ideally all 3.

I can say with absolute confidence that Stillman was not drafted in the 1st round with the purpose of being a 4th line winger. This isn't Talladega Nights, just because you aren't 1st line doesn't mean you are last. Stillman definitely has middle 6 potential but the point is he will probably never get that chance in Calgary

This is why your opinion specifically has no value. UPL has been good, I am not arguing that at all (I was also just simply throwing them out there as a random example of a team with a center prospect of similar caliber to Holtz that could be made available). But Markstrom has 100% been better and it's really not close at all. Hellebuyck has been the only goalie in the league that has played as good or better than Markstrom in that time period. Maybe it's time you stopped pretending Markstrom is bad and face reality.

Stillman will be a very good 4th line energy guy and pest. If you’re expecting anything more from him that’s not the right role. Teams need those. If he turns into something more, good for him. But he isn’t competing with the other prospects you have unless you want to roll 4 skill lines

And again, what you’re saying is “we have too many middle 6 wingers”. Again back to my point of you taking the Kuzmenko cap dump then.

My mistake, I had January mixed up with December.

Since the new year UPL has 17.4 GSAx, 1st in the league.

But still waiting on this other buyer for Markstrom. I can’t seem to find one especially since you are apparently so against retaining.

But hold the goalie. Surely Markstrom would never be inconsistent. Surely after his fantastic year in 21-22 he didn’t fall off a cliff the next year??

I'm not understanding your point at all. You should be well of aware the the 2018 WJC scandal by now, especially since it effected your own team. Calgary viewed Kuzmenko as a flippable asset and Vancouver needed him off the books for next year. Kuzmenko came in and essentially replaced Dube in the lineup. Comparing Kuzmenko and Stillman are apples and oranges. One of those players plays in the NHL now and the other won't make his NHL debut for 2-3 years.

We have 2 top 9 wingers locked up with 3+ years of term (Huberdeau and Coleman), and it is also very likely that Kadri shifts to the wing as he ages as well. So that would make 3 total. We have 3 wingers (if you include Sharangovich) who become UFA's in 1.5 years. So for the remainder of this year and next we have 6 total wingers in the top 9 not including prospects. We also have a young winger prospect currently playing in a top 6 role in Zary. Then we have 2 more high potential winger prospects that are NHL ready now in Pelletier and Coronato. so in 1.5 years time those 3 can replace the 3 expiring contract wingers. Add Holtz to that mix and that makes it 4 players for 3 positions. Add Pospisil and that's 5 players for 3 positions. Add in Honzek and it's 6. Thus Stillman is simple homeless in Calgary since odds are he's not displacing most of the previously named players

Serious question…is the feeling in Alberta that this trade is still alive?

And if it were to somehow get resurrected, why would it deviate so much from what was originally the trade?

I guess I don’t understand why I am seeing so many Markstrom to NJD scenarios now….

Perhaps your fanbase should stop asking for Alex Holtz then if you have too many wingers.

Also projecting prospects into the lineup like that is a crapshoot. Odds are half of the lower tier guys won't work out.