I mean, outside observation, it was likely a typo and they got confused. Honest mistake.

I get that you guys are having a heated debate but mistakes happen.

This "Affectionate" guy is not playing with a full deck. 🙄

I stand corrected.

I must've been thinking about 2017 when Karlsson carried his Sens team to the ECF.

I can admit when I'm wrong.

Unlike some lunatics. 🤣

I must've confused Swedes?

Alfredsson and Karlsson? 😁

Rielly isn't a 1D.

He never was.

Just because he's a 1D on Toronto doesn't make him an actual 1D.

It's the Dylan Larkin argument.

He's a 1C on Detroit.

Not a legit 1C.

Doesn't mean Rielly and Larkin aren't very good players.

But you are right about one thing.

You certainly have no idea what you're talking about.

You can tell your other CFACGM alts that too. 🤣

Rielly is absolutely a #1 D. He's also never really had a very good partner. Plats major minutes, wins those minutes and becomes an absolute beast when it matters most

Paranoid? Lol, I don't think there are any consequences for me if that were the case, So do you actually believe it was a typo?

It's not a typo when you reference the Ducks and pretend to speak as though you remember him carrying them to a cup final. Given the way he was going on, there's not much sympathy on my part.

As far as your post goes, "who says no", it is actually interesting:

Karlsson Pros:
Drives play, great shot, speed, transition, passing, vision, possession

His expected goals 5v5 is 17th in the league among dmen 600+ min. His expected goals against per 60 is 76th (right above guys like Marino)

Karlsson cons:
He is paid 10MM per, has had an injury history, and is in his early 30s

Marner Pros:
See basically all of Karlsson's pros

Marners Cons:
Very light on his stick and skates, likely looking for a very big payday soon.

I would say, as a Pens fan, the Pens would say no. It is really good thought exercise. The only hesitation I would have is that Karlsson hasn't meshed the best with the Pens. So maybe that is a consideration...

Rielly is absolutely a #1 D. He's also never really had a very good partner. Plats major minutes, wins those minutes and becomes an absolute beast when it matters most

Nope.

Good player though.

Should be Leafs captain.

My 2 cents (that no one asked me for), Rielly is a very good defenseman who could be a #1 if he had a better partner. As of writing this post, he is not a #1.

Leafs haven’t have a number 1 Dman in like 10 years. The Matthews era has never seen a true 1D. Karlsson won the Norris last year. Marner just can’t get it done in the playoffs. Would be a good change of scenery for the players.

People that don't think Rielly is a #1 at this point are just straight up delusional. I do agree the Leafs could use another #1, if not a top pairing D, but Karlsson is not what they need, certainly not at the cost of Marner. Also, Marner has never been the issue in the playoffs. He's their current leader in playoff points among active players, all while playing a shutdown role.

In short, you have no idea what you're talking about,

As far as your post goes, "who says no", it is actually interesting:

Karlsson Pros:
Drives play, great shot, speed, transition, passing, vision, possession

His expected goals 5v5 is 17th in the league among dmen 600+ min. His expected goals against per 60 is 76th (right above guys like Marino)

Karlsson cons:
He is paid 10MM per, has had an injury history, and is in his early 30s

Marner Pros:
See basically all of Karlsson's pros

Marners Cons:
Very light on his stick and skates, likely looking for a very big payday soon.

I would say, as a Pens fan, the Pens would say no. It is really good thought exercise. The only hesitation I would have is that Karlsson hasn't meshed the best with the Pens. So maybe that is a consideration...

Where did he “Carry” the sharks exactly?,Oh in point totals when his defensive Iq is on par with a cardboard box? like Erik Karlsson is THE LAST THING THE LEAFS NEED, replacing Marner with him would be a braindead move & Mitch does not need a change of scenery like at all, he’s still over a ppg player & hasn’t even hit 28 yrs of age

One of these guys is a Over PPG player who is a 6 time 20 goal scorer,multi time 90+ point scorer,selke runner up & one of the most prolific playmakers in hockey who is sublime on the PK plus is only 27

Karlsson is a 33 yr old 2 Time Norris Trophy winner who gets paid 10 mil & puts up points,with injury history who can QB a PP & that’s about it

Value is not close what so ever, to even think of this you’re likely adding a prospect most likely Pickering & a 1st on top of that, I can see the Pens getting a 2024 3rd back but that is about it

Look at this objectively

The Leafs in this trade lose a Top 10 RW in the League & get a Top 30 defensemen who really doesn’t help the issues with the defence for basically the same cap hit, if you really think that is fair value then you actually are insane Pickering would need to be included as well as a 1st next year or 2nd this year, maybe we’ll send you Niemela & Hirvonen back to Kyle as a Thank You but Value wise you’re off by alot

& Finally ERIK KARLSSON IN 2024 IS NOT A 1D, the 1D of the Pens is Letang, glad we cleared that up

You saying something does not make it true, lol. He's in the argument as a top 10 D in the league, and is currently 7th in points league wide. He's finished 4th in Norris voting, a year in which most argued he was ripped off not being named a finalist. In the last 5 years he's 9th in p/gp among defensemen.

What exactly is your standard for a #1D? That they not play for the Leafs? This is not a matter of opinion, you're just objectively wrong.

Leafs fans really have to take awards voting with a grain of salt. Reilly being a norris “runner up”
And Marner being a selke “runner up” are fake. Everyone knows 50% of of hockey writers/voters are biased Toronto fanboys at heart. Leafs players vote totals are always inflated and get the Pajama boy bump.

Pens say yes immediately, Karlsson can't defend a beach ball whereas Marner can...

Well let's look at the numbers:
Expected Goals Against per 60 (5v5):
Karlsson: 2.57 (76 out of 133, 43rd percentile)
Marner: 2.64 (170 out of 289, 41st percentile)

Corsi:
Karlsson: 55% (88th percentile)
Marner: 52% (68th percentile)

So Karlsson is better at controlling play and preventing goals. At least as far as I can see with stats.

Corsi %... terrible metric

And EGA per 60 doesn't factor in Karlson being on the 2nd pair and Marner being on the top line and nice to see you didn't include PK... BC Karlson doesn't play PK and Marner does...

Karlson also gets 8.8% starts in DZone whereas Marner gets 14.8%

Then look at EV defence on JFresh for Marner and Karlson

Karlsson can't defend a beach ball whereas Marner can...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I just really don't understand what would suggest he's not. Almost everything points to him being a top 10 defenseman in the league at this point.

Well let's look at his stats and percentile 5v5 (500+ min dmen)

Expected Goals: 3.7 (94th percentile)
Points: 19 (95th%)
Hits: 36 (53rd%)
Shots Blocked per 60: 4.66 (59th%)
Shot Attempts: 195 (94th%)
Shots: 99 (99th%)
Corsi: 50% (55th%)
On Ice Expected Goals against per 60: 2.95 (7th%)
On Ice Shots Against per 60: 60.45 (34th%)
On Ice High-Danger Shots Against per 60: 3.57 (4th%)
Rebounds Created: 9 (92nd%)
Shooting Talent Above Average: 4.9% (64th%)

Now he is also really good on the PP amd has some minutes on the PK.

His numbers tell of a guy who is elite offensively but not good defensively.

Rounding all of that out, I will admit he is even better than I thought he was.

It will depend on what you want in a defenseman but I think you could have an argument for top 10 in the NHL if you weight goal scoring over goal prevention.

Especially with a competent D partner, which Brodie has not been at all this year. At the very least I hope we can agree he's a #1D.

Corsi is only a terrible metric when you don't like what it says. But lets look at zone starts. 5v5

Karlsson starts in the defensive zone 9.6% of the time
Marner starts in the defensive zone 9.9% of the time

I don't care about the PK, just as I don't care about the PP. Crosby has been historically great on the PK when he went out. He has very little time there as he is too valuable 5v4 and 5v5.

I'm not even saying Karlsson is better in all aspects of defense but your statement:


Is based on reputation and hyperbolic. You were wrong. Live with it.

He is a solid guy and a #1 on most teams, agreed. If he had a partner who was a shutdown guy with vision and legs, Rielly could have his game at top 10 NHL defenseman.

You're really reaching at this point, embarrassing for you.

Corsi's a terrible stat... It always has been and it always will be... Just bc it make your guy look better, doesn't make it a good stat

site your source on DZone starts as money puck says otherwise...

And you're ignoring PK and PP bc if Karlson was decent at defence, Sulivan would put him in over Chad Ruhwedel

So keep going

(PS; Marner GF% is 58% at 5v5 whereas Karlson's is 52%, special teams don't change that result)

(Natural Stat Trick)