Sabres aren’t doing this, don’t worry (lol)

Although, i think Hart isn’t any good anyways

Why would the Flyers even accept this? I don’t think that gets TK alone let alone with Hart included

Phew, I was hoping you guys would be satisfied with mediocrity forever.

Yes, Carter Hart is good. It is known.

Not a smart trade for Buffalo. Carter Hart has great potential but it hasn't showed despite 5 seasons under his belt. Devon Levi also has great potential and hasn't had a chance to show it. I am totally comfortable letting Levi be the #1 if he can prove it, if not we got a trio in goal to rotate. Konecny is a great player but not one I see Buffalo needing. Jack Quinn projects to be all he is and more.

Hart has more than shown his potential as a guy who just turned 25 in August and has pretty much been the starter for a ****ty team since he was 20. If Levi can prove to be the number one you're OK with him being the number one, not much substance to that comment. I think he has potential too, but asking him to go from university hockey to the starting goalie for a contending team as a 21 year old 7th round pick is ambitious to say the least.

Quinn may turn out to be the better player, he may not. Regardless, Konecny is better now and Hart is better than any goaltender you have at this stage of their development.

Getting a more experienced goalie even if Levi is good enough to be a starter this season would be a good idea, depending on the cost of acquisition. We saw what happened with Stuart Skinner in the playoffs and if Campbell wasn't struggling all season, then having that experienced goalie in the playoffs could have been what saved their season for another round at least. If the WJ scandal becomes a non-issue in regards to Hart, then considering his age and the fact that he's at least proven that he can be a starter, he's definitely someone the Sabres should pursue even if he doesn't end up being elite.

As for TK, I think that move is kind of unnecessary with where Buffalo is at in terms of moving toward contention. They definitely should see where they are at before trying to bring in a player like Konecny who only has 2-years left on his deal. They are better off trying to sign Patrick Kane if they are trying to get a better forward group on paper.

In terms of the trade, I think PHI wants more than this for the pair.

Hart is not the answer
He’s been bad for 3 straight years now

Go troll someone else, it’s pathetic

Solid feedback, it's just about finding the balance that works for both teams value wise. I think it would help both teams get to what they want to achieve, but the value is debatable.

I would just view Quinn as a large part of the motivation for the Flyers to make this trade, and Konecny as the player who could make him (more) expendable to the Sabres. All about working out the value after that I guess

Buddy. Not only has Hart not been bad, he's actually been good. Impressively good in fact when putting his stats into context, but I don't want to complicate things too much for you...

Like I said, I would much prefer that you continue on the path of mediocrity while fumbling the potential of your high draft picks (Eichel, Reinhart, Middelstadt, Nylander, Asplund, Brandon Hagel, Risto, Myers, Bogosian, Borgen, McCabe, Zadorov, Compher, Grigorenko, Girgensons) by failing to address your obvious needs.

Ruin Levi too, I'd even encourage it!

Let me interject Carter Hart was 20 years 2 months old at the start of his first season with the Flyers, while Devon Levi will be 20 months older when he starts his first full season with the Sabres, but he is TOO YOUNG!
If one is considering Hart as a back up, how many NHL teams pay nearly $4,000,000 for that role?
Statistically, Hart has not been significantly better than Luukkonen over the past 3 years, 0.900 SV% v 0.898 SV% 44-58-4 v 20-19-0
Carter may prove to be better than Luukkonen, but he is four times the cap and most recently only marginally better.

Currently Konecny may be a significant upgrade over Quinn but I would rather roll the dice on Quinn, keep my first round draft pick and save the $4,500,000 difference in salary.

Buffalo is not on a path of mediocrity (Last time I checked Buffalo had 11 more wins than the Flyers) but rather finally recovering from the three years of Tim Murray mismanagement and unloaded the malcontents.

Buffalo will not be making the above trade no how much @Affectionate_Side_64 you think it is a good trade for Buffalo.

Yes, Levi is too young just like Hart was then. He performed just about as well as anyone could have hoped, but that does not mean he was a starting goalie at that age, such a thing doesn't exist in the NHL and never has. He's now 25, and has since taken on a starter's load while performing well in that role. That's not even taking into consideration his young age and the poor roster he plays behind, which of course is crucial to any evaluation of his.

UPL is not even remotely comparable, he's started more than nine games in a season once, posting a .892% in 33 games. You wouldn't be acquiring Hart as a backup obviously, he'd be your starter and would allow Levi to progress at a reasonable pace behind him. The Sabres have the foundational pieces in place outside of goaltending to compete now, with the assets and cap space to do so. They've upgraded the D already this past offseason, and with this trade they'd be adding a competent NHL starter and making a big upgrade at wing.

Take a look at some of the best goalies from last year's regular season and look at their careers to that point, Hart is way ahead of where guys like Ullmark, Gustavsson, Samsonov, Georgiev and even Sorokin were at the same age. His early start and career production to this point supports his case, not the opposite. You'd hope obvious things are just obvious, but here we are I guess...

They've been less than mediocre for more than a decade and have et to prove they're anything more than that. This trade would put them in a position to do just that.

Good post, solid reasoning, quality explanation
Probably still won’t be good enough for the Leafs fan,
but he was just trolling anyways

Cart Hart hasn't been good for a while. .900 sv% over the past 3 seasons, with a -11.6 GSAA. In other words, below average.

What is that worth? A 2nd round pick? And that is being generous. Let's call a UPL <> Hart swap a pretty fair trade. UPL posted a .897 over the past 3 years, and at a much cheaper rate.

What are wingers worth? DeBrincat just fetched a 1st + Kubalik, and had a 4-year deal in place at the time of signing. PHI getting Quinn + 1st for TK (2years) is highway robbery. Quinn fits into PHI's timeline.

Briere would take this deal in a heartbeat and run with it.

As a Sabres fan, hard pass.

And your jabs at BUF are all good and fun now. We have suffered. We know. We also know that we are well-positioned to advance past the 2nd round. When was the last time the Leafs made the ECF? Oh yea, 1999. I remember that. BUF has been there since then as well. So, pretty funny of TOR fans to poke at BUF fans.

I do love how much TOR fans salivate over BUF's Dahlin and Power....if only TOR could get 1 premier D-man....

Get back to us when you do something other than flame out spectacularly.

Nope, this would be perfect. Whenever I'm feeling dow about the Leafs, I always remember there's still the Sabres who have it worse. You've been stuck in a perpetual rebuild for decades at this point and it's always hilarious to see what new and exciting way you'll fumble it this time.

You spent more than a decade trying to add top pairing defensemen with multiple high 1st rounders to find one. In 2012 you draft Myers, who goes on to win the Calder and looks like a surefire #1D. Except, rather than improving from his rookie season like most players do, he actually gets progressively worse because he plays on the Sabres. You get a second chance by trading him for a 6th overall defenseman pick in Bogosian, who eventually becomes a bottom pairing D. You draft Zadorov 14th, who eventually leaves and never becomes anything more than a fringe 2nd pair guy. You draft Risto 8th overall and he starts his career well on the trajectory of becoming the #1RD you thought you had in Myers, but like Myers he too gets progressively worse on the Sabres. What does it take for you to finally land the #1D you've been looking for? Two years where you're awful enough to land the 1st overall pick in drafts with franchise D at the top. You finally end up with the D you've been seeking for over a decade, because not even the Sabres can fumble a first overall pick.

Check.

You spend a multitude of high draft picks trying to land a winger, with AHL level Alex Nylander being the highest of the bunch for years. Of course the draft was never going to work for you, but you end up landing your best winger in a decade when you acquire Jeff Skinner. Then, you find a way to fumble that by signing him to an absurd contract he never came close to living up to. Eventually though, you start to have guys like Tuch, Peterka, etc. start to filter in and you finally have a half decent group of wingers, even despite other absurd signings like Okposo along the way.

Check(ish?)

You also spend the better part of a decade trying to add top centers with multiple high draft picks to do so. You use a 12th on Grigorenko, a 2nd overall pick on Reinhart, an 8th on Middelstadt, as well as a multitude of other high picks who never live up to the hype. To finally land the 1C you've been looking for, you have to be awful enough to land the 2nd overall pick in a draft with two generational centers. So the Sabres ask, "How are we going to **** this one up?", eventually pushing him out of town because they wouldn't allow him to get the surgery he wanted for his injury. He leaves for VGK, gets the surgery, and wins the cup in his first full year with the Knights. Lady luck would swing your way at one point though when you were able to land ROR in a trade, another legit 1C, only to push him away and watch him become a Selke + Conn Smythe + cup winner on the Blues. You did however land Thompson in the ROR trade, who became a top 10 C seemingly overnight and signed a sweetheart deal, while also landing a legit 2C in Cozens with the 6th overall pick. Leafs fans start to sweat a bit...

Check.

It's finally starting to look like all the pieces are in place except for in net, when seemingly out of nowhere Ullmark puts together an amazing season on a ****ty Sabres team. Can't have that though, we'll just let him walk and sign a goalie tandem consisting of the Jets backup and 40 year old Craig Anderson. Despite finally having the pieces to put together a regular season where they're a top 3 offensive team, they still manage to miss the playoffs because their goaltending and defense is awful. Meanwhile, Ullmark goes on to win the Vezina.

Now they enter this season with a boatload of cap and an embarrassment of riches asset wise. They make improvements to the D core and Leafs fans are finally thinking, "****, they can't possibly **** this one up can they?" Until you hear Sabres fans are going into the season with a 20 year old 7th round pick who's fresh out of university as their starter, so they can have that extra cap room for... something more important I guess?

And Leafs nation breathes a collective sigh of relief, knowing that although we've been a laughingstock for a long time as well, at least we're not "the" laughingstock.

It's hard to figure out if you actually believe this ****. Hart had one year where he dipped below .900%, that being the covid year when his team fell apart at the seams. His season statistics are as follows:

2018-19 (20 years old) - 31GP 16W 2.83 .917%
2019-20 (21 years old) - 43GP 24W 2.42 .914%
2020-21 (22 years old) - 27GP 9W 3.67 .877%
2021-22 (23 years old) - 45GP 13W 3.16 .905%
2022-23 (24 years old) - 55GP 22W 2.94 .907%

Hart didn't get worse, he started to take on a bigger load while the team in front of him got noticeably worse and started to tank. Even regardless of that, those stats are incredibly impressive for a starting goalie at that age with the situation he's been played in. For the record, his save percentage last year was better than that of Andersen and Bobrovsky (the two starters in ECF), Markstrom and Grubauer (two guys who have been vezina finalists over the past 3 years) Thatcher Demko (who is still somehow elite in everyone's eyes) and everyone of the Sabres goalies, lol.

Got look at some of the top goalies last year; Ullmark wasn't even a backup at 24, Gustavsson posted a .892 at 24 the year before last, then left for a better team and posted a .933%. Samsonov was also 24 the year before last and posted a .896% on the capitals, before leaving for a better team and posting a .919% on the Leafs. Sorokin wasn't even in the league. Are you kidding me saying he's equivalent to UPL? UPL has played 3 seasons, with 4GP, 9GP and most recently 33 games played, where despite playing fewer games on a better team he posted an awful .892%.

For the record, I actually do believe you're built for the playoffs, much better than they Leafs ever were. Literally the only thing that would be holding you back at this point is your goaltending, and despite having more assets than could ever make your roster and a foolish amount of cap space, you really think it's a good idea to run with a 20 year old kid fresh out of university to get you there?

Like, really?

Yea, really. Go ahead and sleep on Levi. BUF isn't.

We will trade UPL <> Hart.

That's what a below average goalie that is overpaid gets in a trade, upside and cap space.

I'm not sleeping on Levi lol, there's just no such thing as a 20 year old full-time starter on a playoff team and it would be foolish to rush him for both his sake and the teams. UPL is the guy with upside in that trade? You obviously didn't read what I said, because the fact Hart has played this much in the NHL already at his age makes him above average, he's well ahead of most goalies. Best of luck though, I really hope you do ruin Levi instead of challenging for the division soon.

Patrick Roy - 20yo, starter, conn smythe, SC
Carey Price- 20yo, starter, 1st in the division, won 1st round

I guess they were rushed and eventually ruined...

Lol you're going to use two goaltenders who are arguably top 5 all-time as your examples? Levi isn't even close to their pedigree. You know who had the most impressive season as a 20 year old goaltender among active goalies? Your boy Carter Hart!

So, you admit there is such a thing. Good job. Appreciate it.

Umm, and about the pedigree...

https://www.eliteprospects.com/awards/ncaa?name=NCAA%20Top%20Collegiate%20Goalie%20(Mike%20Richter%20Award)

I didn't say he doesn't have pedigree, I said he doesn't have the pedigree of Roy or Price. You can at least accept that fact, right? Hart became a full-time starter in the WHL at 16, won goalie of the year 3 times in his short junior career, WHL MVP and CHL goaltender of the year twice. He was the highest drafted goaltender in his draft year and has done nothing but live up to expectations.

I noticed after clicking your link that Levi is actually 21 and has been for some time, I didn't realize but I think I have a better excuse for that than you do. That actually changes things slightly, because there is one example of a current goaltender having legitimate playoff success at 21. Who? Carter Hart, who won two rounds in the playoffs at 21, with 9 wins, a .926% and a 2.23 GAA in 14 games. All at the same age as Levi was when he won that award. Good for him though of course.

For the record, I actually do think Levi is a future starter, I just don't think it's reasonable to expect that right now and think it would be great success if he were able to get there by 25. Why not run a tandem that would support him and keep you from putting all your eggs in one basket? Even if Levi somehow becomes an elite 60 game starter from day 1, Hart is an RFA and you could still trade him. Unlikely to happen, but there you go.

Swayman is another guy on your list and Boston went out to get Ullmark to supplement him. That tandem led to them being one of the best regular season teams of all-time.

You're getting the better winger in the trade right now and have lots of guys waiting in the wing (heh) that can fill that role down the road. You're also getting by far the better goaltender and it's not close. All for swapping a late 1st for an early third. If you can't see this trade would be a no-brainer for the Sabres then the joke is on you.

Let me be frank. I'm probably the most hesitant BUF fan out there about Levi, for reasons that you have stated. I could see him playing in ROC this year, for the record.

Why not run a tandem, indeed? We have UPL. He went 17-11-4 behind a banged-up D and a young team. The dude wins. We have baskets...not one. Our offense can more than cover for learning curves in net. And our revamped, and developing D should be much better than last year. Not to mention our rookie Fs from laast year improving their 2-way play.

BUF isn't just focused on "right now", sorry, no Tavares signing for us...BUF is focusing on now and the future. 2 years of TK isn't as good as 8+ years of Quinn. It just isn't. Let alone another 1st.

BUF isn't expecting Levi to hoist a Cup this year. If he does, amazing! BUF is expecting Levi to grow over the next 3 years and hoist the Cup then.

This isn't an all-or-nothing year. Far from it. It's the beginning of a dynasty. We aren't sacrificing our future for today. We're just not.

I mean a talented tandem. The reason you shouldn't return to the tandem you ran last year is because it wasn't good enough to get a top 3 offense to the playoffs. Let's be honest here, UPL was awful along with their whole goalie core. This isn't an all-or-nothing trade and is not even remotely similar to the Tavares signing. You're getting caught up in the idea that this is Quinn for Konecny, but the real target here for the Sabres would be Hart. He's perfect for the timeline of this team because he just turned 25 and has already proven himself to be a capable starter. You have nothing of real value for goalies beyond Levi, either on your roster or in your pipeline. Your offense was not good enough to carry the goaltending, just as Edmonton's hasn't been either. You don't think they would make a trade like this looking back with what they know now?

You don't have to have the offense cover for the goaltending, nor risk your future to improve now and moving forward. You literally couldn't be in a better position as a team and that's why it was fun to explore this. Your group of skaters are tailormade for the playoffs; Thompson is basically Lemieux-lite and you have him signed long term for 2C money. Your 2C is everything you want at that position and is signed long term for great value. You have incredible forward depth already, good enough to be a top 3 offense despite the incredibly young age of your group, and you still have guys like Benson, Ostlund, Peterka, Quinn, Kulich, Benson, Savoie, Neuchev etc. etc. Not all of those players are going to be able to play on your roster so you'd be dealing from a position of strength to address an area of weakness. If it's not Quinn then it can be any of those guys, you're in the position to make a bet on the best of the bunch.

You also have 22 picks over the next 3 drafts, only missing a 5th rounder from this year. What are you hoping that 1st and this salary cap becomes, if not a starting goaltender? Drafting one wouldn't fit the timeline regardless. You also have an all-star level defense for the distant future with two Norris level franchise D who are still incredibly young, with a lot of talent around them and even more after this offseason. Why not reward the progression this team made last year by showing faith in them and helping them progress toward their goal?

You should be competing for the division this year and for the cup in the next 3, that is a realistic goal for how this roster is built. Placing all your faith in this goaltending really makes no sense, because you don't need to at all.

My last comment to you.
You spend more time discussing Buffalo's past than their present and future.
The past 7 years the Sabres have drafted exceptionally well selecting up 16 NHL players during that period Benson, Wahlberg, Strbak and McCarthy from the last draft alone.
As you inadvertantly correctly pointed out they have traded exceptionally well obtaining Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Jokiharju, Stillman, Greenway and Krebs.
The current team has players the Sabres drafted Dahlin, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Quinn, Power, Peterka, Girgensons, Samuelsson, Bryson, Luukkonen.
Players who were traded for before they became decent Thompson, Krebs, Jokiharju, Levi
Players who want to be here Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, Cliffton and players who have a connection to a coach or other player Stillman, Johnson.
Then there are fringe players as Comrie and Jost.

Neither Hart nor Konecny fall into any of those catagories.

Now you have had several Sabre fans all debunk your idea of trading for players who will add nearly $10,000,000 by replacing two players who are on the ELC, that is truly the definition of bad business, but you continue to carry on.

Let me add Tom Barrasso to young and successful GK.
He was only 18 when he led the Sabres to the playoffs.
That early exposure to the NHL absolutely ruined his career as he only won two cups with the Penguins and he played in the NHL until he was 38 yo.

So if Hart is such a hot commodity, why do you not propose a trade of him to the Leafs as they should be significantly closer to a third round than Buffalo?

You can't point to the last draft and say they drafted exceptionally well lol, that's not how it works. Trading exceptionally well is also a stretch to say the least; you fell ass backwards into Thompson and didn't even realize what you had, but credit where it's due I guess. You also traded a Selke + Conn Smythe winner to get him, so it's not like you fleeced the Blues. Tuch is a good player, but you traded Eichel to get him. Skinner was fair value at the time and not only has his tenure in Buffalo been patchy to say the least, you also paid him $9.5 mil which is just ****ing nuts lol. Years later Leafs fans are laughing at Willy for requesting $9.5 now. If you have to include the rest of those players that means you probably haven't traded well at all lol, let alone "exceptionally" well.

Nobody is debunking my idea lol, clearly it seems to be over your heads. First off, you're adding $4 mil of that cap because you have almost nothing invested in your goaltending, with predictable results. Also UPL is not on an ELC lol, he's the same age as Hart and costs that little because he's awful. In order for your goaltending to be good, you need to invest some of your cap into it. You haven't done that, so your goaltending sucks. Expecting a 21 year old kid coming out of college to immediately carry the starter's load is beyond delusional.

How could Hart and Konecny fit into any of those categories if they're not even on the team, are you serious here?

You want to talk about bad business? Paying a 2nd and a 4th to acquire a cap dump who had 6 goals and 11 points last year and is paid 3 mil for the next 2 years is what I would consider bad business. Apparently you live in the upside-down and consider that trading exceptionally well, which might be why you think acquiring a starting goalie with actual success for a less than a million dollars more is "bad business", I think I'm catching on here. Letting Ullmark walk after an incredible season and replacing him with a 28 year old backup, a 40 year old backup and "Uh oh pucks are leakin' in" is bad business. Ullmark went on to win a Vezina, you guys missed the playoffs despite having a top 3 offense because your goaltending was awful. No need to upgrade the goaltending in Sabres land apparently....

If you need to go all the way back to 83-84 to find another 5th overall pick, who's big achievement was leading his team to the playoffs when 16 of 20 teams made it, only to get knocked out 3-0 in the first round, then really you're helping my point. This is the exception, not the rule.

I'm not proposing a trade of Hart to the Leafs because we signed our starter this summer and he had a good year for us last year. Not to mention the fact we have nowhere close to the assets, cap and need that you guys do. So, another easy one to answer which I appreciate.

Take some time to think, it's actually very straightforward.