phillyjabroni

Quebec GM v4
Membre depuis
8 mar 2017
Équipe préférée
Flyers de Philadelphie
Messages dans les forums
9316
Messages par jour
8,59
Sujets de discussion
85
Forum: NHL Trades18 fév à 14 h 32
Sujet: (LAK/VAN) - Toffoli for Schaller, Madden, 2nd round pick, conditional 4th round pick
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pinslack</b></div><div>Scouts wouldnt qualify Madden as an "average" prospect.

He's projected to be a top six foward by Corey Pronman and he's one of college hockey’s best players according to Scott Wheeler. He might be the 3rd best prospect of VAN.</div></div>

Personally, I don't buy that he is going to be a solid second line forward for any team. He's more of a bottom-six typer player given his skillset in my opinion. He's definitely up there as one of the better NCAA players, but I think a lot of times people use being one of the best and potential synonymously. There are a bunch of other players (Evan Barratt, Mitchell Chaffe, Reilly Walsh, Jack Dugan, David Farrance, to name a few) who are really good at the NCAA level but won't be more than a bottom-six or AHL role.
Forum: NHL Trades17 fév à 13 h 16
Sujet: (NJD/TBL) - Coleman for Foote and 2020 1st round pick
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>I used Laughton but I guess using a player from a fans team is probably not going to do me any favors as it contradicts your point. Fine use Armia then, works just as good.

Retaining salary is an option, the other option is, you know adding a cap dump to offset.. A la Zucker trade, ROR trade, etc. It doesn't have to be retained salary if that is too much. Aside from that, we're talking about a difference in cap from 1.8m to 2.3m in Laughton's case...... If TB is willing to pay a premium just to get that extra 500k in cap saving, then maybe the structure of the team is the problem, not the trade valuation.

I understand Tampa needs that cap saving and values it but this trade did nothing to help them next year. Only adds more cap needed to be shed come Oct 1st next year.....

I disagree wholeheartedly with your player valuations. The deepest draft in years and 3rd line players are all of a sudden too valuable to lose? In my honest opinion, good teams know when its time to cash in every now and then. Philly is nowhere guaranteed to make the playoffs this year and they have a chance to add a 1st rounder without touching the core of the team? That is a no brainer IMO.

Edit: This is a philosophical difference of opinion. There is no right or wrong answers here. Only opinions.</div></div>

It really depends on the ownerships mindset with Montreal, but I see your point with Armia, however, he’s not a center.

They don’t really have a cap dump to move out. Maybe Killorn, but that is a contract that usually gets traded during the draft/offseason.

I view Coleman more than a third line center. He’s versatile and can play up and down the lineup. He only costs 1.8M AAV for this season and next, making him more valuable.

Philadelphia is on pace for 98-99 points. Hard to see them moving out an important player for a dice roll on an 18 year old prospect.
Forum: NHL Trades17 fév à 11 h 49
Sujet: (NJD/TBL) - Coleman for Foote and 2020 1st round pick
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>You are looking at this too narrowly. Teams can retain salary if necessary but besides that, was 1.8M the exact amount TB was looking for? What an arbitrary number? I think the cap was bonus but by no means a prerequisite number.

I'm not advocating they should have went after Jordan Weal, Michael Raffl, Luke Glendening, Marcus Sorensen. These aren't comparables other than in actual cap space. I'm talking about, guys like Joel Armia 2.6M, Calle Jarnkrok 2.0M, Scott laughton 2.3M, etc (Just pulling out names here). I'm pretty sure any one of those players could have done a modest 80% of what Coleman can all while costing their team, at best, that 1st rounder. Heck probably even TB's and not even Van's.

Pretty sure retaining a little on any of those contracts to match that of Colemans if that was such a prerequisite, wouldn't have been that hard knowing a 1st rounder was coming back the other way. Especially in this draft. Your a Philly fan, you wouldn't trade Laughton for a 1st this year? I'm pretty sure that wasn't even a realistic option that could have expected to get for him before today, right?

I am all but certain that if TB offered Vancouver's 1st for Armia, the Habs would have drove him to the airport and packed his bags too. And Armia is no slouch either. Armia is easily a comparable to Coleman, even if Colemans ability was <strong>slightly</strong> more, the price would be <em>significantly</em> less with Armia than it would be with Coleman.

For what TB wanted and needs, they could have gotten very close to it without paying a premium. They actively paid a premium when there was no need to. That's why this trade is a bad one regardless of if the Lightning win the cup or not. it'll take Coleman, himself, earning that premium by playing worthy of that cost during the playoffs. Then and only then can TB say "He was worth every penny".

Tampa is already one of, if not the best team in the league. Paying this premium had more to do with making people and the team forget about last year than it did making the team better this year IMO.</div></div>

No, I wouldn't accept this package for Scott Laughton. He's one of Philadelphia's best players, whether he pours it on in the statsheet, he's a player needed for this team to make a push in the playoffs. Beloved in the locker room, hard forechecker and backchecker, plays the PK, good stick, etc. Coleman is basically Laughton but with more offensive skillsets.

I would contend that you would have to pay a "premium" for retained salaries on players the same way you have to pay a "premium" on Coleman because of his contract. I would assume the costs of both of those things negate one another.

Our main disagreement is on player's value outside of Coleman. If you're giving up 80% of a 1st rounder and a slightly above-average prospect, you're not going to get anywhere close to what Tampa needs, which is why I bring up guys like Weal, Raffl, Sorensen, etc. Those guys will probably cost 80% of the return for Coleman, and they aren't going to push the needle come playoff time. Tampa paid for a player who can push the needle. Any player that can do that, given the contract of Coleman has, would have cost the same, in my opinion.
Forum: NHL Trades17 fév à 0 h 29
Sujet: (NJD/TBL) - Coleman for Foote and 2020 1st round pick
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>Who said anything about finding EXACTLY what Coleman brings? <strong>I simply said find someone who brings something as close to as possible to what he does and pay a quarter of what TB paid. </strong>

As for that last sentence, when has that ever rang true? Or better yet, what percentage of teams who made trades like that, regretted them the following year? <strong>Nearly every single dang one. </strong>

Of course you can bring up guys like ROR with STL. That certainly worked out. Then again, look at what they paid for ROR and look at what they paid for Coleman.....

Coleman is a solid player but Tampa put all their chips in this one guy when they could have had a couple lesser good players but who would have given them not quite as much as Coleman will, and again for a fraction of the price.</div></div>

My argument is that of the players that have a similar contract as him, you're not going to get a player that scrapes the surface of what he brings. The only one I could see is Sean Kuraly, but Boston is a contender and there is no incentive to ship him out. Jordan Weal, Michael Raffl, Luke Glendening, Marcus Sorensen are all replacement level players, which doesn't make them attractive pieces in a market.

It's 100% worth it for them to move a draft pick that is highly plausible conveys this year, as Vancouver is most likely making the playoffs, conveying the draft selection. Highly doubt that Vancouver misses the playoffs and don't make it again next year, let alone win the lottery. They obviously have calculated for this happening, but the probabilities are in Tampa's favor by a wide margin. Nolan Foote is nowhere near a polished prospect; he still has tons of development left. Maybe he becomes a solid second-line winger down the line. My mindset is that you can sacrifice prospects, especially if they are unpolished like Foote, you can move them for known players now. They still own their own 1st round pick, so they can draft another forward prospect with 2nd line potential with their pick.

As for the regret, I would think that teams would regret getting sent home in April because they had to "overpay" on players using draft picks and prospects less than if they got sent home in April because *they didn't make a move*

I disagree with their needs. They don't need more replacement level players; they need someone who brings what Colemans brings. Trading a 3rd round pick for Michael Raffl or Marcus Sorensen, for example, doesn't really advance your chances of going further into the playoffs. Coleman is not a first line player, but you're getting someone who can produce and play a very strong two-way game.

*edit
Forum: NHL Trades16 fév à 22 h 39
Sujet: (NJD/TBL) - Coleman for Foote and 2020 1st round pick
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>I don't think anyone would argue Coleman isn't a good player. Maybe even exactly the type of player TB needs right now. I just don't understand how you can justify this price. Frankly its unjustifiable. If this was the price for Coleman, they should have found the next closest thing and paid probably less than half as much while still getting a decent enough player to fill the void they wanted Coleman to fill.

I hear a lot of "Well If Tampa wins, it'll be a good trade". I disagree. Not only was the pick they gave, NOT even Tampa's 1st, I expect Coleman will have play an integral part in TB winning the cup for it to be justified. Like almost winning the Conn Smyth type of involvement. Then, I think you can say that it was a good trade for TB....... When there are that many personal conditions needed to be justified, maybe you should rethink your strategy.</div></div>

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a forward who plays like Blake Coleman and comes at an AAV below 2M that is also signed for next season. Sean Kuraly, Michael Raffl, Marcus Sorensen Jordan Weal, Luke Glendening, etc. don't come close to the same skillset that Coleman has.

Nolan Foote obviously has potential, but he is still a very unknown commodity at this point in his development. The 1st round pick is the cost of running a team trying to make it out of the Eastern Conference. These teams are going to be ruthless to play against, and having the ability to roll your lines that can play strong two-way play is worth the price of Foote and the 1st.

I agree with you that the "if Tampa wins, it will be a good trade...". The trade is already good for Tampa. They get a forward who fits right in with their system, has the ability to produce, plays with non-reckless energy, aggressive, but smart forechecker, and defensively minded center who is on a cheap contract. Maybe they don't win the Stanley Cup this year, but what they gave up is still worth trying to get there.