+1 on the Hawks trade.

It wouldn't be too bad

I'd prefer to trade Kubalik though and get a positive asset

I can see the Hawks accepting this offer.

I don't mind it.

I’d do that! Gets Pinto done and keeps the Top 9 in place! If Hawks fans are good with it, so am I haha

Just talked to my best friend, Kyle from Chicago. He said he would do that deal. Send it over next week, I'm at the cottage this week.

I think this would be okay.

My reservation about this deal is that I want to see who Katchouk will become with the Hawks this year. He really started coming on at the end of last season. I know his age he doesn't perhaps comport with the Hawks' long-term timeline, but I want to see where his trajectory leads. For this reason, I'd decline, at least for now... If he really comes into his own this season, he could be quite the valuable trade piece at the TDL - similar to the way Raddysh already is, IMO

I might re-consider if OTT also threw Thomson into this deal now. The Hawks currently have a paucity of RD in the pipeline and, though Thomson has been inconsistent, he could be be a decent piece if he puts it together. As we all know, defensemen tend to take a long time in coming into their own.

But I might still decline... Reasonable minds can disagree, eh? Cheers

This Hawk fan declines, Joseph at $3m per season for three more years doesn’t offer much more than Katchouk who is on a sweetheart deal at $775,000 x 1.

For the extra cap commitment of $8m over the next few seasons I would want more then a 2nd round pick.

I read some of your comments in AGM.

One thing that stood out to me is that you think it should cost a 1st to dump Joseph.

Even though it cost only a 2nd and a 4th to dump Zaitsev.

o_O

Actually, using Zaitsev as a comp can work both ways. Yes, Zaitsev, was for a 2nd and 4th. But that was for a half-year plus full year for him (I don't remember exactly when that trade happened; just using 1/2 year for ease of calculation.) That adds up to $6.75mm over that year and a half.

Joseph (as contemplated here) is for a full three years at almost $3mm per year = $9mm. (Actually, just a bit more than that in actual cash - $9.3mm.) That's 38% more in actual cash outlay. A 1st round pick isn't at all out of line for that much more than it cost to dump Zaitsev, IMO. Plus, Joseph takes up a spot that by year three (in theory) the Hawks will want a kid(s) to take. If so, his presence for the extra year could obstruct the growth of a kid or two.

I don't know what is GOING to happen. But it could be seen this way. Given the 38% increase in cost to take on Joseph vs. Zaitsev, and that Joseph may take a spot that could instead go to a developing kid in that third year (which Zaitsev isn't) , I think a 1st to move Joseph is reasonable, as well.

Cheers

1. Zaitsev's cap hit is 4.5 million

Joseph's cap hit is 2.95 million



2. Zaitsev has a 10 team no-trade list

Joseph has no trade protection whatsoever



3. Zaitsev's contract is riddled with signing bonuses and is harder to buy out.

Joseph's contract has no signing bonuses and is easier to buy out.



4. Zaitsev is not a serviceable NHL player.

Joseph is.



5. It should cost less to trade Joseph than it did for Zaitsev, not more.

And you're way too high on Katchouk.

I know what their cap hits and buyouts are. I know that Zaitsev isn't a serviceable NHL player, and that Joseph is. I don't think any no-trade clauses apply to Zaitsev - no one will take him in trade except for what accompanies him in any deal (as the Hawks did).

And if kept to end of their contracts, Joseph will cost the Hawks 38% more in actual dollars than Zaitsev has/will.

Here's what I think you aren't grasping... NEITHER Zaitsev's nor Joseph's value as a player matters to the Hawks; they'll both be long gone by the time the Hawks are relevant again. It's what comes with those players in trade to help the rebuild that matters. It's obvious to me that Joseph can play essential roles. Frankly, I think it's too bad that OTT is now so constructed that he appears on the outs. He IS a useful player. But his value in a deal with the Hawks is what accompanies him. If you want to get value for what he provides, then trade him to a team that needs what he offers. For the Hawks - for all the reasons pertinent to a rebuilding team - it should cost more to take on Joseph's contract, not less.

Last, I admit I don't know what Katchouk will do this year; you don't, either. You might be right. But I don't think there's any harm to the Hawks to find out and reap the benefits IN TRADE to a contender at the TDL if he blossoms, rather than losing him now as a throw-in to this deal.

Cheers

Either way, you're in the minority amongst those that want this trade.

By my count in this AGM, it's 7-2 amongst Hawks fans.

Game, set, match.

Wow. NO ONE's opinion on CapFriendly matters! There are only two opinions that matter - OTT's and CHI's management. We'll see what happens. Good luck.

Unless anyone on this site are Kyle Davidson their opinion doesn’t matter, including mine…Game on!

Joseph isn't anywhere close to a 8.85 cap dump... A by the way, a replacement player costs 0.775 so you'd have to subtract that even if Joseph was a 100% cap dump.

The problem people have is they scout with hockeydb.com and draw conclusions on hockey players with that. It will of course be misleading. When you dig a bit deeper, this is what you find, for example (copy/paste one of my posts) :

Kubalik?

Sure he's a pretty decent offensive player but look at the other players, do you think there will be a lot of PP time available? Kubalik scored 17 of his 45 pts on the PP last season

Over the last 2 years, Kubalik has 51 ESP despite only missing 5 games. Joseph has 45 ES + PK pts despite missing 39 games...

So Joseph has a better scoring rate at ES (1.58 pts per 60 ES minutes vs 1.53 for Kubalik), is quite better defensively and is a TOP PK forward in the NHL.

What was Ottawa's weakness last season? 5v5, they finished 25th in GF%

Kubalik's contract (1 year vs 2.5 AAV) makes him attractive and would return a decent pick while clearing 2.5 AAV

Joseph's is a cap casualty (3 years vs 2.95 AAV) and would cost a decent pick to move

What do you think someone smart should do?


No, it's a completely unrealistic thought.

Good post; thanks for the additional info. I agree that Joseph is good player. And for a team that needs his skills, a 1st rounder probably is an overpay. It's a shame that he seems to be the cap casualty here.

It's just that, for the Hawks, he doesn't fit their timeline. I surmise that they'd only be interested in trade for him only to the extent of the assets that'd come with him, as he'll be long gone by the time the Hawks are relevant again.

Good luck to you and the Sens this year! I think you could be on the cusp of a really good season. Cheers

Yes cap casualty would be the right term. I don't think he'll be seen as overpaid anymore in the near future. Just has to bounce back a little and play most of the 82 games

Thanks for the good words. Cheers