No thanks — Liljegren isn’t the kind of defenseman we need

I think you need any defenseman you can get my friend.

We have enough offensive guys, we need defensive guys and we could get them much cheaper than that

He's actually good defensively and is a good puck mover. You just got Hagg and Gudas so not sure how many of those types you need...

Hagg is probably our 7th or 8th defenseman once Verbeek is done

We need a defensive RD and LD to pair with both Fowler and Drysdale now leaving Gudas as our RD3 and partner for whatever youngster is playing LD3

That will be a no thanks from the Hawks. Murray will take a 1st to dump all by himself....no one is eating a 6 million Murray****e sandwich for less than that. TRad at 20G....750K is another 1st....or the Hawks are not moving him. 7 years of retention on Seth Jones is probably not happeing at this point as he is a productive, young, and gets in the way of nothing for the Hawks going forward. A single year of Nylander who wants 10+ million per is probably a first from someone, but definately not the rebuilding Hawks. Robertson has been hurt so often he is not going to have anywhere near the value Leafs fans want to believe he has. Likewise Niemela in a nice prospect, but not THAT exciting (he would not make the Hawk top 10 and probably strugggle to make the top 15 after a step back season last year).

And you're going to find one for cheaper than a 2nd and 3rd who is a 24 year old RFA? Lol good luck!

Clearly the Nylander trade includes an extension, probably no more than 9 mil. I've realized you Hawks fans are never willing to be reasonable no matter the package....

CBJ SAY YES

Lol. Basically Liljegren for Peeke so I'm good with that.

Why would anything in this AGM be "clear" that Nylander is agreeing to a 9 million a year extension? If Nylander is willing to sign an extension for 9, guessing he would not be getting traded. If the Hawks are getting Nylander for 9, but having to retain 1.5 on Jones to make that happen, the net is Nylander making 10.5 which begs the question why would a rebuilding Hawks still a few years away from having any realistic chance of turning the corner have ANY interest in that?

Because Hawk fans don't gobble up trades that don't really accomplish much for the Hawks don't make them "unreasonable". If you want to trade Murray with a 1st, Hawks gladdly say yes (because the 1st actually achieves something the Hawks want....building talent from the ground up). If you want to attach a 4th & 6th to Murray as a Leaf AGM today (and virtually every day) proposes, then Hawk fans will be "unreasonable". You need to offer something the other team wants.

If you are replacing a guy that is overpaid by 1.5 million with another guy overpaid by 1.5 million (the net result of retaining on Jones to acquire Nylander and pay him 9 which was again oh so clear here), I'll take the RHD that plays 25 minutes a game over a winger.

Nashville Passes

You have to factor in 7 years of retention which is a deal breaker. It's not that we're being unreasonable. It's that we know what being in cap hell does to a good roster. We know that sometimes to unload a bad contract it costs Terrevainen. We know that getting pennies on the dollar in a trade is the price for spending too much on average to above average players. Now that we're on this side, we don't want to be back where we were 5 years ago.

You're right that I didn't make that clear and should have, but I figured there have been enough Nylander trades by now to know that an extension would be included. You're being unreasonable because you came in here with a defensive mindset and you're trying to misconstrue things to suit that.

Let's pretend your valuation of a 1st for one year of Murray is accurate and forget about the fact we traded you 3 years of Mrazek at $3.8 so you could move up 11 spots in the draft. So now we'll set Murray and the 1st aside which you've agreed is a win for you (much more of a win than is realistic),

We're left with Nylander - who is a 1st line winger at $9 mil, Niemela - who is a highly touted RHD prospect and former defenseman of the tournament in the WJC, who is projected as a top 4 two way D and fits your timeline much better than Jones, and Robertson - Who has struggled with injury at times but if healthy projects to be a top 6 goal scoring winger. If he was a sure bet he wouldn't be included because it's already an overpay as is.

Then on your end you have Jones at $9.5 mil who is overpaid and has underperformed, and Raddysh - who just entered the league at 24 and hasn't posted more than 37 points in a season at 25 years old.

So yes, this is a massive win for you and you're just too blind to see it.

Thanks for your input.

This is such a backwards take. The cap hell will come when he's 35 and you're unable to trade him with assets attached, let alone for assets in return. You say you've learned from your mistakes but this is quite literally the exact same situation happening right before your eyes and this is where you'll get your out. $1.5 mil against the cap is literally peanuts, it's $75,000 less for each player on your 20 man roster.

I'm starting to see who the unreasonable one is. I'll stick with what I said.

Hawks took TWO years of Mrazek (not three) at a time where they had no goalies under contract and needed two for the NHL roster. The trade was executed by a new GM with no 1st round picks trying to put his mark on a franchise and one of 3 moves to get into the 1st round that off season. Hawks have plenty of picks stacked up and 4 goalies signed to fill the 2 spots in the NHL and the 2 in the AHL. So a pretty drastically different set of circumstances.

Nylander is not a 9 million winger if it takes retaining 1.5 on Jones to get there....he is a 10.5 million winger in reality at that point. Sorry, but I am just not a big fan/believer in either Niemela (most account have him disappointing/regressing last season) or Robertson (injuries). Robertson is tiny and has not managed to stay healthy more than half a season going back 4 seasons now and Niemela is not exactly a giant. There are reasons both lasted into the late 2nd & 3rd rounds and a lot of those questions still surround them as prospects. Maybe they blossom/stay health/transition to north America and achieve your lofty expectations, but at this point both are as likely to never be impactful NHL players as they are to be "top 6" or "middle pairing".

Nylander accomplishes the same thing for the Hawks as Jones does....namely a piece that is too good for where the team actually is. I would rather "overpay" Jones the 1.5 million and have a RHD to pair with the large group of LHD we need to sort through at the NHL level this season and going forward than to overpay a winger by 1.5 million (that retention thing on Jones) when we have several viable options to let Bedard and Reichel acclimate to the NHL.

Fair enough.

Appreciate your feedback.

You can argue every possible angle there is, but CHI is not doing that, period. Robertson is worth nothing and Niemela isn't the "top prospect" TOR fans think he is. I wouldn't even put him in a top 100 list. Not to mention the 7 years of retention. It is just an entirely unrealistic proposal from top to bottom.

Thank you for your input, cheers.

Reading that again, it came across way more aggressively than I meant it. haha. My bad. But, I'm also pretty jaded by the millions of awful proposals from TOR fans on a daily basis.

The way I look at it, though, Jones seems to be pretty content currently and not worried about going somewhere to "win now", and Kyle Davidson has no reason to approach him and ask him to waive his NMC unless the offers coming in are too good to pass up. So, CHI's internal politics already don't match up with what is being offered, as it is.

Let's remember the Hawks only had 1 goalie under contract when they traded for Mrazek. They don't need Murray (Hawks have 4 goalies on professional contracts) and don't want to pay his $6M. Leafs buy him out and lets move on.

Nylander at any realistic price is a NO GO for the Hawks. He does not fit the rebuild window and will be halfway through whatever contract before we are ready to compete.

Robertson has 0 value. Moving on. Niemela is a good piece (not great).

Seth Jones is a Hawk until much closer to the end of his deal. We are not tying up a retention slot for 7 years. That makes no sense. Jones also does NOT want to play in Canada. Jones helps us get to the cap floor and gives a veteran presence on D.

Raddysh is a young forward with 3rd line potential on a contender. He is cheap and fits what the Hawks are trying to do.

All in all none of this makes sense for the Hawks.

NSH just has no interest in Jarnkrok. As fun as a reunion tour with Jarny would be there just isn't any room for him in the lineup. If NSH hadn't signed Gurianov then maybe, but it be more like a 4th and 5th for Jarnkrok. NSH isn't in the business of giving up high picks for a player that doesn't have a long term place on the team right now while they are retooling/rebuilding.