Not much chance at all the Jets trade Ehlers for a rental.

What if Guentzel re-signs

He wouldn't. But to play along, then it would depend on the contract length and dollars he is looking for.

12 new starters out of 19 players on the ice, they might as well tear it all down.

The team isnt flush with picks or good prospects, even with some of these lopsided trades.

If you're looking for that much overhaul, then trade the few valuable pieces they have, crosby, malkin, rakell, petersen (and we all know that isnt happening)

I think the roster needs to be nuked. Whether or not I did that realistically or successfully is another question, but it needs a complete overhaul.

And with a new management team who bear no loyalty to prior decisions, PIT should trade what actually has good value and begin a real rebuild.

Theres really no point in trying to build a competitive team built around Crosby, Malkin, Letang.

UFAs are good.

I don't want MAF but at least you're getting paid to take him so that's fine. CGY trade works. WPG trade seems like a clear loss for the Pens - as does the STL trade. And you're right - Rust isn't waiving to go to MTL. I've noticed you keep putting Athanasiou at Center

What on gods green earth is this Guentzel trade? Why are people so headstrong to trade him? Especially in this deal lol. People said Jake had a bad year last year & he still scored more goals and more points than Ehlers has scored in his entire career. Stop the madness.

Give him an 8x8 contract and be done with it.

Blues obviously pass

I don't know if an 8 x 8 contract is wise 1-2 years out from a rebuild.

Anthanasiou played 1 and 2C last year with the Blackhawks I believe and did pretty well. Have Rodrigues here too so I thought 2 center options would be good. I just think in general trading Guentzel for a player who fits a different need and then trading 2024 1st is the best way to upgrade the team without waging the future too much. Use 1 to get a puck moving D and another to replace Guentzel in top 6.

I don't disagree but it's also not realistic. They're not going to begin a rebuild until at least next summer. Definitely on the table that we have to sell at deadline. I don't think Dubas will hesitate to rebuild if the team isn't competitive next year, but I think he at least wants to give it a shot with Crosby. I was fully in the rebuild camp, but seeing this years playoffs really anything could happen. And if someone could make it work I think it's Dubas. Not saying it's likely, but I think it could go either way next year whether we rebuild sell halfway through then rebuild or end up fielding a really good team that gives Crosby and the core 1-2 more good years.

Trying to wrap my head around the maf trade. Mn doesn’t want to trade him, he doesn’t want to leave and they have other assets they can trade for cap relief, so not going to throw away a pick like that.

Agree with you....but I dont have faith that Dubas is that good, or the miracle worker you need. If anything in his Leaf career, he showed a pretty weak acquisition streak, (for every win, he had a whiff), and has left them pretty much in the same position when he joined, but with a limited prospect pool, most of its picks gone, and most of the key guys nearing UFA.

Really? Interesting - didn't know that. Still not sure I want to take a risk of having a fill in center play 3C.

What different need does Ehlers fit? I have no issues with trading the 24 first - like I said the CGY is fine in my book. But it's just weird it sounds like you're saying use Guentzel in a trade to replace Guentzel, no?

Shoot, I'd be tempted. It depends how much of a rebound you think Krug has or what other moves Army would do after this but the trade DOES get them out of Krug's contract. Just depends how badly Army wants to do that I guess.

There'd have to be another move after this. Petry dumped for someone else or other moves made to create room for a younger D-man... something. It wouldn't be JUST this, no way.

Not saying I'd do it, saying I don't think it's an immediately obvious "NO." For me.

I'm also extraordinarily pessimistic on Krug's future in this league too, so...

First of all, yeah, Krug will probably bounce back to some extent. But this trade makes no sense for the Blues. They'd need to replace Krug, but Petry eats his whole cap hit and now they're totally imbalanced. They're not trading Krug to get older and the LD problem still exists.

Those three players combined for 72 goals and 211 points last season. You absolutely should stil be trying to win with that.

Honestly, I doubt overhauling the roster is possible, or necessary, or even beneficial. The lineup at the top is actually really good, just not good enough to take the travesty of last year's depth anywhere. The Pens generated a ton of offense last year, but struggled to finish. By both evolving-hockey and moneypuck, the Pens were 4th in xG and 9th in xG%. GAAx was pertty average, but GFAx was the worst in the NHL. The finishing here was an anomaly in how bad it was, and only a few teams come close.

The top 6 was given a lot of ice time. Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell was 5th and Zucker-Malkin-Rust was 13th in ice time, and the swaps of Raks and Rust were both in the top 25 as well. Still, the two lines I mentioned were 7th and 9th in xG/60 and 7th and 18th in xG% out of lines with 200+ minutes. If the Pens were to run it back with a similar top 6 and improved forward depth, they can more evenly distribute ice time and not have a bottom 6 that gets caved in every night. McGinn-Carter-Kapanen had the 4th worst xG% and 5th worst xG/60 of any line with 150+ minutes.

Defense is still pretty top heavy, but not to as much of a degree. Of all D pairings with 300+ minutes, Pettersson-Letang and Pettersson-Petry were top 30 in xG% and top 10 in xG/60 (Joseph-Ruhwedel was actually pretty close to Petey-Tanger in both, interestingly). The xGA/60 is less impressive across the board, but Pettersson-Letang was still the best pairing the Pens had in that regard. Joseph-Petry was also the 2nd best pairing in actual goals/60 with 200+ minutes.

I say all that to say this: The top of the lineup was very effective. The Pens need significant additions, not significant changes. There are some guys in this ACGM that can provide that. Bertuzzi, Lafreniere, Hanifin, Rodrigues, Engvall are all worth consideration. But I don't think that moving the likes of Guentzel, Rust, Petry for equal or worse players and tossing team chemistry into the Monongahela River are going to do us any favors. How many major changes will Dubas even be able to make in one offseason?

Sure if they were close to 30 yrs old. They're value isnt going to get better, as they're signed very long term.

Listen, I get it....I just dont think that this team with its KEY players at that age gets better results than those numbers. Theyve stayed healthy and been champs, but like the NYI dynasty, you have to start a change over to a new guard before the old guard just breaks down or retires.

I just dont think that the team is going to get better results with the KEY players getting older, but will stay in that 7th-11th spot, (and Im not even going into Petry, Carter). And with a weak prospect pool, they will be forced to deal what they have in prospects and picks to try and keep in the playoff picture

Ehlers is a lot faster. Not necessarily better, but just insanely fast and similar production

I'm just not sure giving up POJ and a 3rd is worth it for a similar player that is a bit faster. I like Ehlers - and I think him and Guentzel are on a similar level - I have no issues with getting him. I just don't see the extra value of Ehlers that makes us need to pay in addition to Guentzel. That's all I was trying to say

Strongly disagree on moving Guentzel being a way to make the Pens better. I mentioned in the previous reply that the Pens finishing was awful. Getting rid of a perennial 35-40 goal scorer won't make that better. Jake is 8th in goals and 18th in points at even strength over the past 5 seasons. Replacing Jake in the top 6 is a Herculean task that is more trouble than it's worth.

The only reason they were in the playoff picture was because of those guys. If they had any support what so ever in the bottom 6 they are in the playoffs by 10+ points and this isn't even a question. Give them the support next season to win.

I dont disagree, but I think relying on those KEY players (Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Carter, Petry) to stay healthy and perform as well if not better is not realistic either. And just qualifying for the playoffs isnt the aim, is it?

Its just my opinion, but I think their window to win another cup is closed, and now its just trying to build around a deteriorating base