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UFA signings are horrendous, Pretty much like the trades as well.

You aren't getting Ryan Hartman for your cap dumps on Minnesota and bunch of ahl bodies/some b/ c prospect and free agent to be back up G. Geeze beyond bad for Minnesota and no from Minnesota perspective

Detroit declines. No need for Joseph. 2 years of Petry at 4.8 million for a late 3rd is not worth it. Seriously, there won't be any teams lining up for Petry that are contenders. That NMC pretty much ensures any team the Pens want to trade to will gouge the Pens at 50% retained and better assets.

Holy overpay BATMAN!

The Rutta trade does buck the trend in that a 4th would need to be added with Rutta for Buf to take him

Petry with retention does not require POJ

That Min trade is bananas. You traded the better player (Rust) with retention for a worse player (Hartman). One goalie (DeSmith) for a statistically similar goalie (Fleury) who makes more money. Then threw in two of Pittsburgh's better prospects, a 2nd and a 3rd for a 5th? If you dropped the retention on Rust and all of the picks and prospects, that's still a crazy overpay for Pittsburgh.

Finally, Jeff Carter at 40% retention is probably worth a 6th round pick. He has a good shot and can win faceoffs but has no legs. Then you put in another prospect, a 7th D man, a 2nd and 2 7ths.

INSANE!

This thread is called "another try". With all due respect, try again.

Hartman has 1 good season. You can keep him. I'll keep the guy with 4, 20 goal seasons who kills penalties and plays the PP.

Cap dump.... it is criminal how underrated Rust is.

Another try and another fail. For wings deal Penguins replace poj with either guentzel, this year's first or pickering or you can keep that dead contract

Agree, but a better use of Guentzel would be to do a sign and trade to a team that wants him. They can probably get a lower 1st and a good prospect then flip the pick for taking on Petry.

Yeah we will keep him. It's weird how people can't understand how good Ryan Hartman is or especially his cap to Minnesota. We aren't the place for Pittsburgh fans to keep sending contracts to

Rust>Hartman.........I wouldn't do this trade as a PENS fan. Moving Rust isn't a cap dump for the Pens, if we move Rust, its simply to get new blood on the team due to recent failures. Pens love Rust.

I've seen him play. He looks good. He looked good in Chi too. I would say he is a good player with good possession numbers. A solid 3 line RW. The disparity here is that Rust is a top 6 RW. Rust is two years older but more talented of a finisher and checker.

I agree Minn is not a fit for trading with Pit.

Rust last 2 years (idk who he's been playing with)
44 goals
60 assists
141 games
0.73 ppg

Hartman last 2 years (finally getting some decent linemates in Kirill and Zuccy)
49 goals
53 assists
141 games
0.72 ppg

Ya, Hartman is probably experiencing the Kirill effect but still.

Rust is making 5.125 for the next 5 years, so far it's not looking as good as his ppg fell off this year.

Hartman is making 1.7 for one more year. 1.7 mil for a guy putting a puck in the back of the net every 3 games, that's pretty good.

Casey DeSmith
3.17 GAA
.905 SV%
Has had a pretty good career based off the numbers, but has 1 playoff game under his belt.

MAF
2.85 GAA
.908 SV%
And 168 playoff games under his belt, even though his last one was very bad. (team didn't help him but still)
Looks to be slowing down but I think could still give you a decent shot to win.

So if you're the Pens you are getting a very similar player based off the numbers the last 2 years for 3.5 million less and getting a goalie with better numbers for 1.7 million more.

Nylander is 25, how many more years do you have to wait on him to break out? Maybe a change of scenery does that but if it's me on not really paying much for him.

Don't know much about Poulin but he looks like a decent prospect.

Imo the value of what Hartman does on his contract on a team like the Wild who have absolutely zero money is just so so so valuable. You can call me crazy but for the Wild to get rid of him for a retained Rust, you have to give away a crazy haul. Probably more than what is proposed here.

Because think, the Wild have like 9 mil to get like 5 forwards, 1 defenseman, and Gus under contract without making any trades/cuts. Rust for Hartman would make it so the Wild only have like 5.5 mil to get the same players resigned. So Rust coming to Minnesota isn't just unrealistic, but it also screws us in resigning our other players. So the only reason to trade Hartman for Rust is if the Wild get an absolute haul for him, which just isn't realistic, but it's what the Wild would need to be interested in doing it.

My thoughts:

You're basically giving away POJ for nothing - which is very bad.
I'm not sure the point of the MIN trade? You didn't get better players or save any cap, yet you gave up 2 prospects, a 2nd, and a 3rd?

Just chiming in to say MAF isn't better than Desmith - and he's twice the cost. They have a near even save %, if you look at this year only, and MAF plays in front of a significantly better defensive team.

Overall the trade just makes no sense for the Pens. They aren't getting better players or saving any cap - and yet for some reason they're paying 2 prospects, a 2nd and a 3rd.

I saw JSEB's post so I'll just cover the Rust bit.

Yes, Rust and Hartman look similar in the last two years (in terms of goals and points) but that is including Hartmans best year and a down year for Rust. Looking at just this year, they both have good possession metrics. Where they have a discrepancy is in expected goals. This basically looks at advanced stats and shooting to see if they were lucky or unlucky.

Rust scored 20 goals compared to his shooting talent (adjusted) expected goals of 28. Meaning he was unlucky by around 8 goals. Here are the numbers for the last few years (starting with this year).
Goals (STAEG)
20 (28)
24 (26)
22 (22)
27 (21)

Here are the same numbers for Hartman (last 4 years)
15 (16)
34 (25)
7 (7)
9 (9)

Now, like you said Hartman has had bad linemates in previous years but even with better guys, he is not as good as Rust. Yes, Rust is older but only by 2 years.

If they were traded for each other, the extra picks would be going to Pit not Min. Which is why we agree that there isn't a fit.