JVR isn't a player who fits TO's style anymore. He's a poor skater and not very good defensively. We can do a lot better than him.

We need help on PP2 and depth offence. Sounds like he is an exact fit to me. More to that his defensive results this year are actually kind of decent (which surprised me). Regardless the defence isn't the team issue and I don't much care about his impact there. We have more than enough defensive skill to mitigate any negatives

He makes a lot of sense, especially at his acquisition cost, but I can't stop giggling thinking about that line being Nylander getting into the offensive zone with the puck and then looking back and seeing JVR & JT huffin and puffin to get over the red line.

Frankly thats a bigger + for me

Although it will probably Mitch there who isn't as fast

Some team is going to take a chance on JVR. Think some team would offer more. Maybe the Leafs aren't willing to pony up enough, but I wouldn't mike JVR back as a Leaf.
If he was acquired. Bunting, JVR, Kerfoot, Engvall, and Knies if signed will get his 10 games in to burn off a year of ELC. That's pretty stacked.

Does JVR add enough offence to warrant the defensive decline we'll see with him on the ice? Does he forecheck well enough to have an impact in the top 6? If he can't keep up with them, does he contribute in the defence first bottom 6?

No to all of that. JVR is nostalgia, he's a poor fit on what the Leafs have become. Once a team narrows down an identity, you need to keep that identity and JVR is not a Keefe system player.

Nylander would make two 360 degree turns in the offensive zone, and then JVR will have caught to the blue line....One more circle, and JVR is by the net.

I had the same thought as Random2152, but I do wonder how his skating would affect that line or the 3rd if Knies plays. Definitely the goal would be to get someone who can play into the team defense style that they have going like ROR, but maybe JVR wouldn't be a bad add if they can't land anyone of significance up front. They could probably get double retention but I would definitely expect a more significant addition to the D-core like Zub if he's available in that case.

They have a good defense core but they are still missing that physical presence with Muzzin (and Benn) out. So getting a physical defender who can play as a regular/stay healthy is probably better even if Benn heals. If they land ROR, then they can also still add Schenn for depth.

Yup, JT isn't as slow as people on here like to think and his game doesn't need to be fast but what he does do well is so so great that it doesn't matter much. But he needs guys who can skate with him and if you put Marner with him, you need someone else to create space with speed. JVR isn't that.

I suppose its very easy to rationalise passing on someone when you ignore all that they bring to the table.

Why are we wasting assets on the D? The D are great and we have extra lmao. The most I'd do for them is a cheap Kulikov add just so we have 12 NHL D ready to go at a moments notice.

Back in the late 60s, Montreal had this young fast player Yvon Cournoyer. He was rarely used at even strength (for some reason) but was a PP specialist. Maybe that's the only spot for JVR
Cournoyer was held back by the Habs for a few years but he certainly has a great NHL career. Maybe two of the most exciting RWers of all time,, Lafleur and Cournoyer

If they are adding a cheap rental up front, I wouldn't want them to add a cheap rental to the back. The D is great but they can be better. If the Leafs can win with just adding JVR and Kulikov or Schenn or whoever, then I think they can win without adding them -that could be true but there are no do-backs-so it kind of seems like a waste of assets even if they are just a couple of 4ths and 3rds.

Basically, if they make an addition around the edges I would hope that it's someone that they could/would potentially bring back to help them next year (and beyond) or someone with term. If they are bringing in pure rentals, then I would hope that there is someone that would put them over the top. I don't think JVR or Kulikov fall under either category.

Disagree entirely. Any significant assets (including cap space) on the D is assets wasted. They're good. Really good. Genuinely not sure how anyone could watch the team and think D is the issue when its so clearly depth scoring we need. More to that I'm not interested in trading any more pick this year. I really like the options that we could have at 32

Both Liljegren and Timmins have been standing guys up on entries a lot. I love it, make it hurt to try to get into our zone. Timmins especially has been way more than I ever thought he'd be this quickly. I don't see the need to add to defence. If anything get a 3rd pair bruiser as a reserve guy for if injuries happen in a deep playoff run. But I hope we don't need em. Right now one of Holl or Timmins will be the #4 RD and right now Benn is the #4 LD. Is getting an improvement over Gio or Sandin worthwhile? Is it even really possible? Who available is better value than those guys? Is Chychrun that much better than Sandin? No one provides as much value as Gio does, league min deal for a guy playing top pair minutes and crushing it? On the right, who available is better than Liljegren or Brodie? Will anyone available be that much better than Holl or Timmins as a 3RD when we are healthy? Is it worth paying that much to get a better #3 RD?

We don't need defence.

What does he bring to the table though? Some softer hands near the net? A netfront for the 2nd unit that plays at most 40 seconds on any PP? Does he even really help create offence or will he occasionally cleanup garbage in front. Does he do anything but cause problems in the defensive zone?

It's not ignoring what he brings to the table, it's see what's on the table, how the table is designed and recognizing that adding a square peg into a round hole doesn't work. JVR is a guy who just can't play the role he'd need to play to work on this squad.

What's the point of having a guy on the team that can't play regular 5v5 minutes? But helps for the last 40 seconds of a pp. He wouldn't ever see top unit minutes and he's a liability in the Leafs system.

He brings plenty. Specifically for us a PP2 and ev offence generation for the depth lines that we need.

I agree with you. At least right now, I wouldn't want changes. As much as the Leafs left wings get criticized, they seem to effective. This team seems to have great chemistry ( winning helps). I tend to think, don't change a thing. As much as so many think by adding a player helps, the fact is when you add you have to subtract. Is the potential difference worth it?

A 60% grade is hardly special. And this also has no bearing on how his attributes work in TO's system. On a weak Philly team where he is asked to do more than he's capable of getting pretty big usage to accomplish what he's getting should be enough to show you he's not all that great. JVR was fun when he was here but he was a leader on a team that went nowhere, thinking he would somehow turn the 2nd PP unit into a force is silly, they won't play enough to make that a reality and you don't take the top unit off the ice to give JVR more PP time.

Depth scoring is definitely an issue, but my point is that bringing in a guy like JVR isn't necessarily addressing that issue, he might be a great fit, he might not. So the idea would be if adding JVR fails to result in improved depth scoring, the addition to the back end should be an improvement resulting in the Leafs giving up less. Just because the the D has been great but doesn't mean that they won't have any setbacks or that they can't be better. As for trading picks, if the acquisition and the cost and the risk/reward make sense then it's not an issue.

I still think the Leafs lack a physical presence on the back end, someone who can clear the net, but maybe Timmins can grow into that guy but I don't think he's starting over Holl who really should be that guy for the Leafs with his size.



Not too sure what you mean about this lol. Is that a shot at O'Reilly or are you saying they can acquire/resign quality guys who are 32+ like Kulikov and JVR for cheap?

Dude, we're giving up a 4th round pick and looking for a depth add - you can't seriously expect Nathan MacKinnon

Draft

And I don't know what else to say about the D. youre wrong to think thats what needs attention. The only real thing that would tangibly improve the Leafs D is a super high end #1 D add like Miro, Makar, or Fox. Our D is deep and effective, grabbing someone else there does nothing

That's the rub for sure. Who do you take out? With that being said, the right add makes you better. And I do feel this is a go for it year. I certainly wouldn't add a lot. I think a 3C who adds offence and doesn't take away defence is the move we need. It could cost Kerfoot just for cap reasons but maybe not. And then you can bring in Knies to battle for a spot. Certainly doesn't mean he makes the team but give him a shot for sure. You can always get better but making major changes would have an adverse effect.

I'm still concerned that Knies just might go the college UFA route. Leafs would have to "guarantee" he plays 10 games this season so he would burn off a ELC year, if he does sign.
I'm leaning to him not signing, and he's a UFA in the summer of 2024, and he signs with the LA Kings and plays with his buddy Matthews...who signs as a King as a UFA.

Just like how the ŀeafs had to trade Nylander to be cap compliant this year right?
Your takes on this stuff are so bad its hilarious