Johnson to MTL for buyout re-signs with COL

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Créé par: Billy739

Équipe: 2022-23 Avalanche du Colorado

Date de création initiale: 27 juin 2022

Publié: 27 juin 2022

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

Yes its allowed even if Daly and Bettman Threaten the Board of Govenors decided to not make it a rule when they took a vote and couldnt agree on implementing it. Its much like the Ban on trade back's with Expansion Teams. They Threatened MTL openly in Public then Justified SEA trading back Vanacek to WSH.
***************************That's Life with Burocracy**************************

COL 2nd line signs for 1 year each in hopes of a Cup Repeat
This is all made possible by Johnson agreeing to be bought out then re-signing.

COL gets to skate virtually the same team as this year minus Cogliano,Helm and J.Johnson. They have their biggest re-signed players this year off contract next year for Mckinnon's payday and they've got Kuemper and Mason for 3 years on deals they can easily justify and move if need be.

The Cost?

Kaut who is a really good RW prospect i'd rank A- or B+
2nd round pick #64 OA which is basically an Early 3rd rounder

Why does MTL do this?
Our RW depth is weak with Ylonen being the only AHL level Pro we got ready today.
Kaut fits our needs and timeline as the more Laval succeeds the better MTL's players thrive.
We go through a ton of injuries yearly by Christmas without Fail and need depth players like Kaut to help us out and even earn a full time role like Pezetta,Dauphin or Poehling did

To me this is a Win Win
Could both teams get more? Sure but the result would be different as it would mean a Johnson exit

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Lehkonen, Artturi	2	2 750 000 $
Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas	2	1 150 000 $
Maltsev, Mikhail	2	850 000 $

UFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Kadri, Nazem	1	6 000 000 $
Kuemper, Darcy	3	6 500 000 $
Burakovsky, André	1	5 000 000 $
Manson, Josh	3	3 750 000 $
Sturm, Nico	1	1 000 000 $
Nichushkin, Valeri	2	3 500 000 $

CRÉÉ		ANS	CAP HIT
Johnson, Erik		1	1 000 000 $

Transactions

COL

Stapley, Brett [Liste de réserve]

Détails additionnels:

-Stapley has expiring rights its just basically "Future Considerations". I just included him as i feel he'd make sense in COL system (MTL isnt signing him despite going out on top as NCAA Champ, we just dont got enough Contract Space)

2m over 2 year cap hit for MTL
MTL gets a decent RW prospect and a pick

I doubt we're buying out anyone this summer from our roster and this would be about on par with what we got from WPG for buying out Mason without taking a Roster player from COL

MTL

Johnson, Erik
Kaut, Martin
Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (COL)

Détails additionnels:

Kaut and this year 64th OA pick

Johnson re-signs with COL for 1m and collects 2m a year from MTL. Goes on another cup run with COL and helps clear the cap to re-sign Kadri

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2022
2023
2024

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	82 500 000 $	82 315 000 $	25 000 $	3 350 000 $	185 000 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Landeskog, Gabriel 7 000 000 $7 000 000 $ AG, C NMC UFA - 7	MacKinnon, Nathan 6 300 000 $6 300 000 $ C NMC UFA - 1	Rantanen, Mikko 9 250 000 $9 250 000 $ AD, C UFA - 3
Burakovsky, André 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 5	Kadri, Nazem 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ C UFA - 7	Nichushkin, Valeri 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 8
Lehkonen, Artturi 2 750 000 $2 750 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 5	Newhook, Alex 908 333 $908 333 $ (850 000 $$850K) C, AG RFA - 1	Compher, J.T. 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ C, AD UFA - 1
O'Connor, Logan 1 050 000 $1 050 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 3	Sturm, Nico 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ C UFA - 3	Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas 1 150 000 $1 150 000 $ AD UFA - 1
Maltsev, Mikhail 850 000 $850 000 $ C, AG UFA - 1	Sedlak, Lukas 800 000 $800 000 $ C, AG, AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Toews, Devon 4 100 000 $4 100 000 $ DG UFA - 2	Makar, Cale 9 000 000 $9 000 000 $ DD UFA - 5	Kuemper, Darcy 6 500 000 $6 500 000 $ G UFA - 5
Girard, Samuel 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 5	Manson, Josh 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ DD UFA - 4	Francouz, Pavel 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ G UFA - 2
Byram, Bowen 894 167 $894 167 $ (2 500 000 $$2M) DG/DD RFA - 1	Johnson, Erik 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
MacDermid, Kurtis 987 500 $987 500 $ DG/DD, AG UFA - 2

27 juin 2022 à 12 h 37

Caniac555

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Wasn’t this situation outlined as cap circumventing and not allowed by NHL?

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 38

Byrr

Rejoint: juill. 2019

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Not allowed as per the NHL after it was done a few seasons ago.

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 41

qc14

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Caps and Colorado did this with Orpik and the league immediately said it wouldn't be allowed again

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 43

Xqb15a

Rejoint: août 2020

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That’s circumvention but it would have to be proved that was the plan at the start, EJ accepting a trade to MTL is a large indicator of that. Two, it sure felt like a possibility that he may retire, if he doesn’t he only has a year left and was very solid in his role. It’s kinda been obscured by his contract, but he helped Girard develop into a puck moving top pairing-ish quality guy, and just let Byram grow into the beast he is becoming.

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 43

Xqb15a

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 50

GMBL

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MTL would be paying him 2m this year and 2m next even if Col was a little more smart about it by acquiring him later in the season, from a different team. So is that compensation really worth it? I think they would also get hit with a recapture penalty on cap if he retires next year.

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 50

Billy739

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Billy739

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Quoting: qc14

Caps and Colorado did this with Orpik and the league immediately said it wouldn't be allowed again

What the League says and what it does is 2 different things
I got a Picture here somewhere of Bettman's stooge Daly saying you couldnt trade back a player claimed in the Expansion for VGK draft.
Then the Seattle draft he explained why it was allowed "cause there's no rule against it"

Despite him making a stink and threatening teams in the VGK draft who planned on doing it
It was just a scare tactic they had no interest in ever enforcing

There's no Rule against it
It just isnt Endorsed by the League

27 juin 2022 à 12 h 51

Billy739

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Quoting: GMBL

Nope Recapture Pentalty was changed
Its called the Luongo Rule

A Team can now spead the Cap hit out of 25 years however they want
I thought it was BS cause now NSH gets a pass on the Weber recapture penalty basically

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27 juin 2022 à 12 h 55

Billy739

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Billy739

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Quoting: Xqb15a

Yes and No

Like Vitek Vancek i believe it was from WSH who was taken in the Expansion then traded back it was against the NHL expressed wishes
But when it happened Bill Daly just played dumb and said "there's no rule against it" saying its more just frowned upon

Many things in the NHL are like this
Its like TBL using the Cap to screw MTL with 98m cap hit on a 81m max cap hit
Technically there was a grey area they took advantage of that was frowned upon but not illegal
They've yet to close the loop holes CHI in 2015 and TBL in 2021 used to do this proving they have no intent to stop it, just discourage it

27 juin 2022 à 12 h 57

#10

Billy739

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Quoting: qc14

Caps and Colorado did this with Orpik and the league immediately said it wouldn't be allowed again

Then did not change the Rule at all
They threatened with Trading back players in the Expansion the same way after rumours MTL was working on a deal like that for Price
Then not a month later explained "there's no rule against it " when WSH re-acquire Vitek Vanacek

Bill Daly is a joke
He threatens people then when you post his quote from years before contradicting himself
He then goes into "no rule agains it" type non sense

27 juin 2022 à 12 h 58

#11

Billy739

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Quoting: Byrr

Not allowed as per the NHL after it was done a few seasons ago.

Wrong
They said it wasnt , promised to make changes then did nothing
Just like with the Expansion Draft and Trading back
Promised to do something then did nothing while playing dumb as it happened again with WSH and Seattle for Vanacek

There's a difference between what Media Reports and the Actual Facts are.

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 0

#12

Byrr

Rejoint: juill. 2019

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Quoting: Billy739

They sent out a warning to all the teams saying the next one would be punished.

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27 juin 2022 à 13 h 0

#13

qc14

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Quoting: Billy739

For Seattle trading Vanacek back to the caps, it was not deemed cap circumvention as there was no plan between Seattle, Washington, and the player to be reacquired -- Seattle took Vanacek with the intention of keeping him and having him compete with Dreidger, and that changed after the expansion draft when Grubauer was suddenly available. More importantly, the caps did not actually get any cap benefits from the moves -- Vanacek was on the exact same contract and cap hit as when he originally went to Seattle and there was no retention or buyout.

When Orpik was traded, bought out, and re-signed, that was the plan all along between the two teams and the player, and Washington got back Orpik at a much lesser hit and for less years. Both of those things would hold in this proposal, so I would be very confident the league would deem it cap circumvention and prevent EJ from re-signing in Colorado.

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 3

#14

Billy739

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Quoting: Caniac555

Wasn’t this situation outlined as cap circumventing and not allowed by NHL?

No it actually wasnt
It was a loophole they promised to close but didnt

Just like 2015 CHI and 2021 TBL going way over cap without penalties they promised to change and never will
Or the Trade Back rule for Expansions they threatened to change but never did

Orpik did it they threatened and thats it
Just like with TBL or Vanacek being traded back the league will look away a 2nd and 3rd time
Bill Daly condemned Orpik but justified Vanacek even while having his own Tweet thrown back in his face.

NHL is like that
They let the media tell the Fans "its the rule" and they just buy it hahahah
No one fact checks or see's what happens at the Board of Govenors meetings
They just assume because Bettman or Daly said it that somehow 32 NHL owners who rarely agree on anything as 1
Suddenly just jump when their Employee's say how high hahaha

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 5

#15

Billy739

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Quoting: Byrr

They sent out a warning to all the teams saying the next one would be punished.

Same as they did with Trade backs during expansions
Did you not see Billy Daly justify Vanacek trade this year ?

No Penalty to them despite them making public threats against MTL if they did it with Price
Warnings are Empty Threats unless you get 32 Gm's to agree on a Rule Change

That didnt happen

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 6

#16

GMBL

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The motivation for this move though is to sign Kadri on a one year deal for 6m, which is probably not the move for him. Darren Ferris is going to try to get him paid now, and if he doesn't have any suitors he would get him a contract like he did for Hall at 8mx1

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 7

#17

Byrr

Rejoint: juill. 2019

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Quoting: Billy739

You call it empty threats, NHL will call it big penalties against your team. Tomato, tomato.

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 10

#18

Billy739

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Quoting: qc14

I didnt say it was Circumvention
I said it was a Grey area not expressed as forbidden in the rules
It was taken advantage of as such

Trading back a player you Retain Salary on is Circumvention
Buying them out and them re-signing is not.
Its VERY Close and some may make that assumption because they lump Retaining Salary with Buyouts
But they're 2 different process's

They Threatened to expand the rules
32 Gm's met for the Board of Govenors meeting and no decision was reached

I always read up on their meetings and of all the 100's of proposed changes only a half dozen have actually been made officially
That's Burocracy at every level and Bettman doesnt make the rules he enforce's them , nothing more
He's not the Owner and Posture as he might he doesnt dictate how the 32 owners rule , he just carries out their wishes

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 15

#19

qc14

Rejoint: sept. 2020

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Quoting: Billy739

I agree that it's not explicitly forbidden in the CBA. Just pointing out that the Vanacek situation was different and viewed differently by the league than the Orpik situation (or the no trade-backs with Vegas and retention scenarios that the league originally wanted to prevent). I think that given how pissed off the central office was after the Orpik situation in 2018, teams will not attempt another trade/buyout/re-sign deal, and if they did the league would try to stop them.

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27 juin 2022 à 13 h 18

#20

Billy739

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Quoting: GMBL

Yes and no
Its to win a cup and keep this team together without screwing them when they need to re-sign Mckinnon.
His entire line will be UFA's and together combine for 14.5m of which Mckinnon will only need a Fraction of for his Raise.
At this Point COL has the Choice on whether to re-sign 1,2,3 or none of their 2nd line if they feel like it

Its about Cap Flexibility but also about skating the same championship team without losing any key players
Could i have signed Kadri longterm right away to save confusion? Yes
But it felt easier to justify to a COL fanbase at 1 year until Mckinnon's signed then anything goes
They're real focused on Mckinnon's next contract and i can see why as he could be humble like Crosby or be greedy like Matthews
As the top player on a Cup team he has that right

The point is they have the option
They dont have that currently not without Mckinnon signing Early to a team friendly deal this summer

27 juin 2022 à 13 h 23

#21

Billy739

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Quoting: qc14

Agreed its different but the threat that Bill Daly expressly made against MTL wasnt
Then he turned around and allowed it to happen shrugging it off

This is a more Recent Example of just how little Power that Bill Daly and Gary Bettman's threats have.
They're well paid Manager's but they're nothing more on any level.
Owners dont trip over themselves to create rules just because they over stepped
They instead use the Media to their advantage with Posturing to cover their butts

Owners dont want a rule like that for a reason
Sometimes the players suffer because of rules like this and that costs the Owners investment to lose value.
No smart businessman allows a rule like this to cost him asset's
The other owners might be mad other teams work together but they dont lose money just an advantage.
In creating this rule it puts teams in situations where asset's value's can be completely stripped

Imagine if Vanacek had to go back to the AHL because SEA took too many Goalies.
How long before he's back in Russia?

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