If the Rangers won't give up those assets for Eichel, they won't for Hertl.

I understand that, this is from a sharks stand point. Tried my best to give the trade some reason behind it.

Seems like an awfully hefty price for Hertl…

He’s good, and sure, swing for the moon — but that’s a lot to ask from NYR.

Good players cost. You want to send Zach Jones and Pajuniemi then you can get Granlund.

Hertl is a top 25 C in the game. Those aren't free.

Top 15 honestly

Let me give a few reasons why he is worth that much;

1. His career faceoff % is 52.9. In that past 2 years it was 54.81 (2019-2020) and 55.23 (2020-2021). The Rangers don't have a single center with above 50 % faceoff wins, the closest is Zibanejad at 49.3.
2. Hertl's shooting % is at 17. Mika is the closest with 14% (though Mika took 49 more shots).
3. (Ik +/- isn't a great stat, but it's something to consider) Hertl was a +1 through out last season, Mika only beats him out with a +2.
4. Hertl is by far and away a better defensive forward then both Mika and Strome.
5. While playing with a carousel of wingers, Hertl notched on 7 less points then Mika with 6 less games.

My point is Hertl is worth as much as Mika, if not more. He is worth that price. Hertl is a top 15 center.

1. McDavid
2. Crosby
3. Matthews
4. Draisaitl
5. Barkov
6. Point
7.Mackinnon
8. Schiefele
9. Tavares
10. Bergeron
11. O’reilly
12. Zibanejad
13. Barzal
14. Pettersson
15. Couturier
16. Toews
17. Backstrom
18. Lindholm
19. Kopitar
20. Seguin
21. Eichel
22. Malkin
23. Suzuki
24. Kuznetsov
25. Hughes
26. Monahan.

Which 12 guys is hertl better than?

1. Face offs are really really important. It’s not something that’s addressed with a top prospect, a really good young roster player, a 1st, and a 2nd. That’s something you throw a 3rd round pick at for a good depth vet center that can play PK and win face offs.
2. Hertl’s shooting percentage was 17% over 50 games last season. It’s 13.4 for his career…meaning it will very likely return to normal.
3. +1? My god, put him in the hall. Tied for 284th in the league! You sure you couldn’t get a couple extra firsts?
4. Sure. But a good defensive center isn’t getting that package. That kind of package is more in the bonafide elite player category.
5. He only scored 7 fewer points is your argument as to why he’s worth at least as much? The dude scored 41 goals in 57 games.

It just kind of seems like you’re trying to talk yourself into your stance more than anything else.

No Corsi tho

🙁

That's the best way to make a case for him lol

Love Hertl and think he's worth more than most people on this site let on, but that's asking too much.

I'd cite Hertl's deceptive age as the key downside

28 in about a month

Not a huge negative but gives pause a bit

Nobody from Zibanejad and down is better than Hertl except for Eichel, who you for some reason have at 20. Honestly some of these names makes me think you watch hockey with your eyes closed. Lindholm?? Kuznetsov? Suzuki after one above average year?

These are the stats that matter and show Hertl is top 15-20
https://twitter.com/wwright88/status/1445444401224814605/photo/1
https://twitter.com/EvolvingWild/status/1432775202824507395/photo/1

couldn't find it

With the extension and a possible bidding war, his price could go up. Though its a fair point.

There’s no order to the list. I ignore everything evolvingwild because everything evolvingwild is stupid.

Hertl over barzal? Seriously? Pettersson? Seguin? Couturier? Actually, that’s a good one to stop on.

Couturier is a legit selke candidate. Physical (more physical than Hertl), awesome defensively (better than Hertl, significantly), outscores Hertl by a wide margin (over the past four seasons .91 points per game vs Hertl’s .78). There’s really no argument for Hertl over Couturier. I do think there is a very good argument for Hertl over some of the players on this list. I don’t think there’s any argument for him being a top 15 center that isn’t loaded with bias and wishful thinking.

Do you actually think that Hertl is better than Toews, Seguin, Barzal, Couturier, Pettersson, Eichel, Malkin, and Backstrom?

Couturier and Eichel, those are the two you may have cases on. Barzal and Petersson are worth more because of their age, but RIGHT NOW they are not better than Hertl, and every metric you could think of would back that. And Seguin? Are we still in 2016? as for the others you have on the bottom:

Yes, Yes, Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes, Yes

And I don't "think" he is, there are literally advanced statistics that I posted in my comment that show he's better. You think a 92 percentile player, 20th in the league per GAR projections, is not a top 15 player at his own position?

There is more to evaluating a player than point totals and there are ways to prove someone's abilities without just saying their "awesome defensively"

Every metric? If you want to talk about Corsi, find someone else, as i don’t think it has any value. I would hesitate to tell people about evaluating players defensively if you’re going to launch into metrics. You aren’t evaluating anything, you’re hoping numbers can just do it for you. Now, points aren’t everything, but when you’re talking about a top 15 center, they matter a lot. So, how about a metric like, i don’t know, scoring?

But, it seems like you like stuff on paper….has Hertl ever received a selke vote? Just one fifth place vote?
Toews certainly has, and he’s won. And he outscores Hertl. By kind of a ton.
Seguin game has certainly become more well rounded over the years….and there’s the whole scoring thing.
Barzal…i mean, cmon.
Couturier i don’t just have a case on. It’s open and shut. He’s better at literally everything. He won the selke in the last couple years, no?
Pettersson is just light years better than Hertl. His impact on the game is drastically better.
We’re on the same page with eichel.
Malkin i can see a strong debate for that one.
Backstrom….i just don’t get how you can go with hertl on this one. Backstrom outscores him…always. He’s been a selke candidate a whole bunch. Total package player.

Hertl is a real nice player, but any contending team that’s trading for him is going to have him as a 2C….because that’s what he is. A good 2C. 1st and a kicker, like it’s always been.

Sorry, stopped reading here. Have a good night

You should have kept reading. It’s really really really really clear you’re wrong and watching hockey (if you do), through teal colored glasses. Corsi is dumb. This game is subjective which is why we all like it. It’s more fun that way, and you’ll have a better understanding of the game.

I am not saying your wrong but I would like to know which metrics you are using to compare Pettersson to Hertl?
EP is a very solid defensive player and has averaged .92 PPG over his career compared to Hertl's .64PPG.

Per https://www.naturalstattrick.com, Hertl had a higher CF%, higher GF% higher xGF% last season, and when Hertl was on, the on-ice SV% was .9108, compared to .8852 for Petersson. Those aren't the only stats that matter, and that last one isn't necessarily the greatest measure of defensive performance, but they do seem to suggest Hertl was the better player last year. I have no doubt that Petersson will reach a higher peak than Hertl ever did, and it will probably happen soon, I would say that if I was ranking them just for right now though I'd take Hertl.

Per https://www.naturalstattrick.com, Hertl had a higher CF%, higher GF% higher xGF% last season, and when Hertl was on, the on-ice SV% was .9108, compared to .8852 for Petersson. Those aren't the only stats that matter, and that last one isn't necessarily the greatest measure of defensive performance, but they do seem to suggest Hertl was the better player last year. I have no doubt that Petersson will reach a higher peak than Hertl ever did, and it will probably happen soon, I would say that if I was ranking them just for right now though I'd take Hertl.

The stats you quote are true, however EP was playing injured for most of his very short season last year. If you go back one year further, EP rated higher in all 3 of those categories, in two of them by a significant margin.

"YOUR wrong"
The irony says it all, doesn't it?

No thank you sir. Having two centers signed into their mid to late 30s on expensive contracts is not the way I’d go for our team. I’d still take Mika over Hertl. I’ll keep the assets instead of making this trade.