20 juill. 2020
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>westleysnipez</b></div><div>Garland does have value, he's been one of the best two-way forwards on the Canucks this season. His offense has been limited due to the logjam of winger depth (He's a 20-goal, 50-point winger playing bottom six minutes because of that). In any case, Vancouver is playing well right now and can afford to wait until there is a team willing to pay for Garland, the Canucks have said they're not paying to move out players.
Absolutely, which is what the Canucks are trying to do with Garland and Beauvillier, solid top-sixers capable of 20g/40-50 points. Even if it's just for picks/prospects, the Canucks have Ethan Bear waiting in the wings to re-sign as soon as they clear the cap space. Bear played Top-4 minutes for Vancouver last year and didn't look out of place, Vancouver doesn't have to give up futures for a Top-4 rental, although that would certainly improve our depth even more.
Kuzmenko doesn't have Zub's injury history, which was my point in calling out Zub's seasons. Zub has missed 43 games in the previous three seasons and has missed 8 games already this year, while Kuzmenko has missed 6 games over the same time if we include the KHL. Winger is the easiest position, but it's clear that few skaters play left wing as well as Kuzmenko does. He is Top-15 in points by LW since coming into the league. I'm in full agreement with the Sens' fans "No."
If Hughes can play with a pilon, why would the Canucks need to move out a Top-15 player and key locker room guy for a Top-4 defenseman? Again, they could move out a less impactful player for futures and sign a Top-4 defenseman for free. Bear is a Top-4 defenseman, he has better advanced stats than Zub while playing on worse teams.
Zub is an option, I'm not denying that. He can be a #4, has a reasonable cap hit, and can play the right side. What I'm pointing out is Kuzmenko is far too steep a price to pay for a player who would be a #4 on the Canucks and who wouldn't be playing beside Hughes. The idea behind moving for another RHD is to find someone who can play Top-4 beside Cole, move up to the top pair in case of injuries, and allow Friedman to be #7, not to find a guy who needs to play alongside Hughes to have their mistakes covered. Zub can be that guy — just not for Kuzmenko.</div></div>
- At this point, one has to be a pretty optimistic Canucks fan to believe Garland has value. The team has been trying to move him for over a year and he's still on the roster, they have tried giving him away without retention, and they have been shopping him with retention and still have haven't been able to find a deal with enough positive value to make it worth while. His offence has only been somewhat limited, he has had plenty of opportunity to prove himself on the top lines (last year Kuzmenko was the only solid top 6 option on the wings) , during his time in Vancouver he hasn't earned that spot.
- Neither Garland or Beauvillier is returning a top 4 defenseman, even if it's a rental. Beauvillier is more likely to have positive value due to his lower cap hit and that he is in the final year of his contract, however he alone doesn't return a decent top four 4, even if it's a rental.
- Kuzmenko is a first line winger, as I have already said I like the player, offering him in a trade is nothing against him. If the team wants to acquire a legitimate top 4 RD with term on a good contract for a winger, it has to be a winger with significant positive value, that means it's probably one of Kuzmenko or Boeser/Mikheyev if they continues having career years.
- Ask the GM, the rumors are they are trying to add a big piece on the blueline. Currently the Canucks have two D that would be top 4 on a contender, I personally like Cole and think he can be alright as a 4 on a decent team but on a contender (like TB last year) he's a very good bottom pair guy.
- If Zub was available he would be an option, never said he was the best option, I said I was looking to post something different than the trades we see proposed multiple times a day. If you want to get something you have to give something, no one is taking "Garland and some picks/prospects" for a legitimate top 4 RD.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>westleysnipez</b></div><div>That makes more sense, the way OP was replying made me think he was a Sens fan. Thank you for providing a Senators perspective.
I agree, I don't believe either team is a good trade partner, both have similar problems (log jam of wingers, weaker defensively).
As for Zub, I'm basing his analytics off of his Corsi, his ATOI, and his QoC last season. I know it's been a while since JFresh has done an update on Zub, but his numbers last season were abysmal. Add in his injury history and it doesn't give him a ton of value compared to the other RHD on the market.</div></div>
Thank goodness I didn't come off as a bias Canucks fan!
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>westleysnipez</b></div><div>Zub is not a top-pairing defenseman, perhaps he can make it work in short bursts, but he's been eaten alive analytically even in just a Top-4 role. Add in the fact that at 28 he's only played one full NHL season, he's decidedly not worth Kuzmenko 1 for 1. If the Senators are wanting Top-6 support, I'd maybe move Garland + mid pick/prospect for him. But given Zub's injury history, I think there's better options on the market.
Besides that, Bear played excellently with Hughes last season. It's cheaper for the Canucks to move out cap space to re-sign Bear than to lose Kuzmenko.</div></div>
Garland has zero value, Zero. He isn't bringing back a top 4 RD even if you add "mid pick/prospects". If Garland's being moved the Canucks are paying in either retention or picks/prospects. I would personally rather move a good winger for a defenseman than pay the costs of moving a player like Garland and then all the additional young assets it would take to acquire a top 4 defenseman. This team is decent (although their underlying numbers haven't been great), but they still aren't contenders and are still going to have cap issues going forward, so they need their few good young prospects and future high picks to ensure they have a steady flow of ECL's coming in the future.
You do realize Kuzmenko has only played one NHL season and is also turning 28 in early 2024 right? Look I like Kuzmenko, he had a very high shooting percentage last season that boosted his total but he's a good player and a well liked teammate. That said he plays the easiest position to fill in the NHL and Zub the hardest, that significantly effects value and that is why all the Sen's fans on here are saying "No".
You could put a pilon on the ice and it would look good as Hughes defense partner. Bear is a decent player and one I think the team should bring back, that said he is a #5 on a good blueline, and although I like Bear I certainly wouldn't want him paired with Hughes in the playoffs,
At the end of the day, Zub doesn't have to be the player the team acquires. He was an option that I hadn't seen posted on here yet so I decided I would try something different. Either way if this team chooses to make a big move for a defenseman, I would rather move a winger with value than the multiple young assets it would otherwise cost.