Forums/Armchair-GM

Drouin

Créé par: Eli
Date de création initiale: jun 11, 2021
Publié: 11 jun à 19 h 03
Équipe: 2021-22 Capitals de Washington
Explications
Ovechkin deal is heavily front loaded. If he breaks the record early and retires, there will be cap penalties. If not, WSH has cost certainty on the rest of the chase, and Ovechkin is certain he's allowed to play in the NHL for as long as it takes to make it happen.

Trade: fans on each side are divided between thinking Kuznetsov is worth Kotkaniemi and a 1st and thinking he's worth Drouin and a B prospect. WSH needs center depth, even with Kuznetsov. If Kuznetsov and Drouin each need a change of scenery, that's fine, but there's no sense leaving WSH with three NHL centers and giving MTL five. Neither team wants that.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi42 500 000 $
Samsonov, Ilya42 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Ovechkin, Alex86 000 000 $
Transactions
WSH
  1. Drouin, Jonathan
  2. Kotkaniemi, Jesperi [Droits de RFA]
MTL
  1. Kuznetsov, Evgeny
  2. 2021 4e round pick (WSH)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
WSH
ARI
WSH
WSH
2022
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
2023
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
WSH
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $81 972 927 $472 927 $132 500 $-472 927 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
WSH
Ovechkin, Alex
6 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA
WSH
Bäckström, Nicklas
9 200 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 4
WSH
Oshie, T.J.
5 750 000 $
AD, C
NTC
UFA - 4
WSH
Mantha, Anthony
5 700 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
WSH
Eller, Lars
3 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
WSH
Wilson, Tom
5 166 666 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 3
MTL
Drouin, Jonathan
5 500 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 2
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi
2 500 000 $
C, AG
RFA
WSH
Sheary, Conor
1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
WSH
Hagelin, Carl
2 750 000 $
AG
UFA - 2
WSH
Dowd, Nic
750 000 $
C
UFA - 1
WSH
Hathaway, Garnet
1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
WSH
Sprong, Daniel
725 000 $
AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
WSH
Dillon, Brenden
3 900 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
WSH
Carlson, John
8 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 5
WSH
Vanecek, Vitek
716 667 $
G
RFA - 1
WSH
Orlov, Dmitry
5 100 000 $
DG/DD
NTC
UFA - 2
WSH
Schultz, Justin
4 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
WSH
Samsonov, Ilya
2 500 000 $
G
RFA
WSH
Fehérváry, Martin
791 667 $
DG
RFA - 2
WSH
Jensen, Nick
2 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
WSH
van Riemsdyk, Trevor
950 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
WSH
Kempný, Michal
2 500 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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11 jun à 19 h 06
#1
Rejoint: fév 2020
Messages: 1,290
Mentions "j'aime": 530
MTL passes on that
GMs, fil97 et BorisBagel a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 07
#2
Zuke is the goat
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 4,205
Mentions "j'aime": 1,434
Lol, we will keep KK thanks. He looks awesome right now.
GMs et fil97 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 11
#3
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 12,161
Mentions "j'aime": 4,387
Who the **** thinks Kutz vs KK makes senses from MTL ?
Anyone ?
math731 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 31
#4
down bad
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 375
Quoting: math731
Lol, we will keep KK thanks. He looks awesome right now.


Quoting: GMs
Who the **** thinks Kutz vs KK makes senses from MTL ?
Anyone ?


He has 4 goals in 10 games.

50.98cf% 51.77ff% 49.33xgf%

That’s awesome ?

He has lackluster numbers. I believe he’s averaged 25p/ 82games the last 2 season. Hab fans glorify the crap out of this kid lol my god. Kuzy immediately comes in and becomes their best center. Wtf would Washington do this. They get a downgrade at 2c (kk) and Drouin is average at best and overpaid. Kk is basically a younger version of Eller.
Eli a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 34
#5
down bad
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 375
Quoting: Marcsnack
MTL passes on that


Capitals also. How does this help them win now? Look up Kotkaniemi numbers. He’s built like a good 3c far from a guy I would trust in my top 6 right now. He’s overhyped atm. He could turn into a top 6 guy but hardly is that right now
11 jun à 19 h 37
#6
Démarrer sujet
Who adds what?
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 13,131
Mentions "j'aime": 2,563
Quoting: DogDayCaps2
He has 4 goals in 10 games.

50.98cf% 51.77ff% 49.33xgf%

That’s awesome ?

He has lackluster numbers. I believe he’s averaged 25p/ 82games the last 2 season. Hab fans glorify the crap out of this kid lol my god. Kuzy immediately comes in and becomes their best center. Wtf would Washington do this. They get a downgrade at 2c (kk) and Drouin is average at best and overpaid. Kk is basically a younger version of Eller.


It ain't a win-now move for the Caps. That's for sure. My logic was that it opened up enough cap space to give Ovechkin and Samsonov raises, and in another couple years if two of Kotkaniemi, McMichael, and Lapierre pan out, the Caps could end up pretty good. But next Spring they'd end up scrambling to add a #2C at the deadline, or playing Eller there, and neither situation is ideal. Might make more sense to keep Kuznetsov if they can make that work.
11 jun à 19 h 42
#7
down bad
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 375
Quoting: Eli
It ain't a win-now move for the Caps. That's for sure. My logic was that it opened up enough cap space to give Ovechkin and Samsonov raises, and in another couple years if two of Kotkaniemi, McMichael, and Lapierre pan out, the Caps could end up pretty good. But next Spring they'd end up scrambling to add a #2C at the deadline, or playing Eller there, and neither situation is ideal. Might make more sense to keep Kuznetsov if they can make that work.


If it “ain’t win now” then why waste Ovechkin time. Just let him go to a really contender.. this leaves a massive gap in arguably the most important position in hockey. Capitals have McM Lappy and Protas we are already set down the middle no need to at another guy who if everything goes right might be a good 2c. Realistically he screams 3c cough cough Eller. Plus you add Drouin who is not good and doesn’t fit into the top 6. Is keep Kuzy bc his reward > risk. Dude had 16p in the last 20 go. He’s still really good
Eli a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 43
#8
Roster Architect
Rejoint: mar 2021
Messages: 1,575
Mentions "j'aime": 503
No offence, but this might be one of the worst ACGM's I've seen - take this for constructive criticism and not insulting.

First of, you can't "heavily front-load Ovechkin's deal. There's parameters that it's needs to be structured within. And I believe the last season's salary can't dip below 10% of the total value of the contact. That would mean that the last season of the deal you offered can't fall below $4.8M in total salary. You're going to have a hard time "heavily front-loading" a deal if your last season can't dip below that much.

Now the trade. Honestly, it's just awful. Kotkaniemi has proven to be a legitimate playoff performer which means there's potential there for him to be a dominant centre all year round. His value is already substantially more than Kuznetsov's. Drouin also isn't a negative value asset right now. He's been plagued by injury and mental health issues over the last 2 seasons, but again he's proven to be a playoff performer and in the regular season he's a 50 point player. At only $5.5M AAV, that's a relatively fair deal for him. Might be slightly overpaid but not by much. Kuznetsov is a declining asset with multiple off-ice (drugs) issues. He's overpaid for what he produces, and his only good playoff performance (mind you it was exceptional) was the year they won the cup. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's more of a negative asset than Drouin would be and even Kuznetsov isn't a negative asset.

Honestly, Montreal doesn't really need a centre with Kotkaniemi and Suzuki already being there long term (although Suzuki may be better suited for the wing) but they can draft and develop a centre if they choose to move Suzuki to the wing instead of giving up Kotkaniemi for no reason.

So I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but this is awful. Needs a lot of work actually.
math731 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 19 h 56
#9
Démarrer sujet
Who adds what?
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 13,131
Mentions "j'aime": 2,563
Quoting: TrueCanuck
No offence, but this might be one of the worst ACGM's I've seen - take this for constructive criticism and not insulting.

First of, you can't "heavily front-load Ovechkin's deal. There's parameters that it's needs to be structured within. And I believe the last season's salary can't dip below 10% of the total value of the contact. That would mean that the last season of the deal you offered can't fall below $4.8M in total salary. You're going to have a hard time "heavily front-loading" a deal if your last season can't dip below that much.

Now the trade. Honestly, it's just awful. Kotkaniemi has proven to be a legitimate playoff performer which means there's potential there for him to be a dominant centre all year round. His value is already substantially more than Kuznetsov's. Drouin also isn't a negative value asset right now. He's been plagued by injury and mental health issues over the last 2 seasons, but again he's proven to be a playoff performer and in the regular season he's a 50 point player. At only $5.5M AAV, that's a relatively fair deal for him. Might be slightly overpaid but not by much. Kuznetsov is a declining asset with multiple off-ice (drugs) issues. He's overpaid for what he produces, and his only good playoff performance (mind you it was exceptional) was the year they won the cup. But that was 4 seasons ago. He's more of a negative asset than Drouin would be and even Kuznetsov isn't a negative asset.

Honestly, Montreal doesn't really need a centre with Kotkaniemi and Suzuki already being there long term (although Suzuki may be better suited for the wing) but they can draft and develop a centre if they choose to move Suzuki to the wing instead of giving up Kotkaniemi for no reason.

So I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but this is awful. Needs a lot of work actually.


You say this kind of stuff to a lot of things I post. And to a lot of stuff Leafs fans post. No need to apologize because no one gets their feelings hurt by anyone they don't believe.

Corrections: Kuznetsov's 32 point postseason was three years ago in 2018. It's 2021. Since then he has eleven postseason points. Kotkaniemi, in twenty career games, has eight.

Quoting: DogDayCaps2
Plus you add Drouin who is not good and doesn’t fit into the top 6. I'd keep Kuzy bc his reward > risk. Dude had 16p in the last 20 gp. He’s still really good


Makes sense. Should I delete this?
DogDayCaps2 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 20 h 08
#10
Roster Architect
Rejoint: mar 2021
Messages: 1,575
Mentions "j'aime": 503
Quoting: Eli
You say this kind of stuff to a lot of things I post. And to a lot of stuff Leafs fans post. No need to apologize because no one gets their feelings hurt by anyone they don't believe.

Corrections: Kuznetsov's 32 point postseason was three years ago in 2018. It's 2021. Since then he has eleven postseason points. Kotkaniemi, in twenty career games, has eight.


Wow. The arrogance here.

But good of you to only believe that a postseason performance is built only around point production. But tell me, how many playoff goals does Kuznetsov have since winning the cup? By my count it's 4 goals in 18 games and actually 0 GWG since then as well. But Kotkaneiemi has 8 in 20 games since that same time and has a GWG. So if you're basing things around point now, and with goals being the most important stat of points, tell me, how is Kuznetsov better then?

Get off the high of winning the cup and not realizing that Kuznetsov is a decling asset while Kotkaniemi is still a young and developing one and is actually outscoring Kuznetsov in the playoffs when it matters. But sure, keep thinking that Kuznetsov is worth Kotkaniemi. It makes for a good laugh.
11 jun à 20 h 44
#11
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 12,161
Mentions "j'aime": 4,387
Quoting: DogDayCaps2
He has 4 goals in 10 games.

50.98cf% 51.77ff% 49.33xgf%

That’s awesome ?

He has lackluster numbers. I believe he’s averaged 25p/ 82games the last 2 season. Hab fans glorify the crap out of this kid lol my god. Kuzy immediately comes in and becomes their best center. Wtf would Washington do this. They get a downgrade at 2c (kk) and Drouin is average at best and overpaid. Kk is basically a younger version of Eller.


Kutz will be at the bar taking some cocaine, no thanks
11 jun à 20 h 51
#12
Rejoint: fév 2019
Messages: 9,284
Mentions "j'aime": 6,514
35+ contracts have been contrived to prevent the exact same thing you're trying to do with Ovechkin.
11 jun à 21 h 17
#13
Démarrer sujet
Who adds what?
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 13,131
Mentions "j'aime": 2,563
Quoting: SevenLeg
35+ contracts have been contrived to prevent the exact same thing you're trying to do with Ovechkin.


It does provide a disincentive. But not a serious one when you're talking about a guy with all three MVP awards who's gonna take over the goal scoring lead sometime in the next six years.
11 jun à 21 h 21
#14
Démarrer sujet
Who adds what?
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 13,131
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Quoting: TrueCanuck

..... Kotkaniemi is...actually outscoring Kuznetsov in the playoffs when it matters.


8 pts in 20 games is .400 p/g.
62 ppoints in 81 games is .765 p/g.

Kotkanimi is younger, though. You got that part right, and it does help his trade value a lot.
DogDayCaps2 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 21 h 24
#15
Roster Architect
Rejoint: mar 2021
Messages: 1,575
Mentions "j'aime": 503
Quoting: Eli
8 pts in 20 games is .400 p/g.
62 ppoints in 81 games is .765 p/g.

Kotkanimi is younger, though. You got that part right, and it does help his trade value a lot.


8 goals in his last 20 playoff games compared to 4 in Kuznetsov last 18...
11 jun à 21 h 29
#16
Démarrer sujet
Who adds what?
Rejoint: jui 2017
Messages: 13,131
Mentions "j'aime": 2,563
Quoting: TrueCanuck
8 goals in his last 20 playoff games compared to 4 in Kuznetsov last 18...


Zero assists in that time compared to seven. Hey. That adds up to Kuznetsov having more playoff points in that time, in fewer games. Amazing.
DogDayCaps2 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 21 h 32
#17
Dach is Elite
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,679
Mentions "j'aime": 528
When you give Ovechkin 8 years when he’s 36 by next season……
11 jun à 21 h 47
#18
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 17,966
Mentions "j'aime": 5,311
Everyone can debate whose better, has more value, etc, till the cows come home. It doesn't really matter.

Does Kuznetsov seem like the kind of player with the kind of character, MB would go out to acquire?

Its really a simple answer. No.

The closest type of player MB has acquired that plays similar to what Kuzy can do is Drouin and we all know how that turned out. This playoff run has shown exactly what type of player MB wants.

Its not Kuzy's talent that is stopping MB from acquiring him. Its his baggage that goes along with him that is stopping him.
TrueCanuck et jpsnow13 a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 21 h 52
#19
down bad
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 375
Quoting: Eli
You say this kind of stuff to a lot of things I post. And to a lot of stuff Leafs fans post. No need to apologize because no one gets their feelings hurt by anyone they don't believe.

Corrections: Kuznetsov's 32 point postseason was three years ago in 2018. It's 2021. Since then he has eleven postseason points. Kotkaniemi, in twenty career games, has eight.



Makes sense. Should I delete this?


You need to understand that the lazy narrative on this site is Kuzy sucks. People are too lazy to look into it and just regenerate other peoples lazy opinions till now it’s like COVID on this site. Everyone has it and no one knows how or why but it’s now part of their opinion.
Eli a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 21 h 56
#20
down bad
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 375
Quoting: GMs
Kutz will be at the bar taking some cocaine, no thanks


Lol expected this level of intelligence. “KK is playing amazing” dude has 4 goals lol calm down lol like JFC he’s playing good but he’s not amazing maybe good? Maybe he should do some lines kid looks average. 25p/82g season pace is borderline bust level. He can get better but stop glorifying mediocre it’s embarrassing
Eli a aimé ceci.
11 jun à 22 h 20
#21
Roster Architect
Rejoint: mar 2021
Messages: 1,575
Mentions "j'aime": 503
Quoting: Eli
Zero assists in that time compared to seven. Hey. That adds up to Kuznetsov having more playoff points in that time, in fewer games. Amazing.


Let's not kid yourself here kid, assists aren't valued as much as goals. Scoring the goal is always more valuable and it's the hardest thing in the sport to do. So he got an assist? I haven't checked but how many of those are secondary?
11 jun à 22 h 42
#22
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 12,161
Mentions "j'aime": 4,387
Quoting: DogDayCaps2
Lol expected this level of intelligence. “KK is playing amazing” dude has 4 goals lol calm down lol like JFC he’s playing good but he’s not amazing maybe good? Maybe he should do some lines kid looks average. 25p/82g season pace is borderline bust level. He can get better but stop glorifying mediocre it’s embarrassing


When did I ever glorify Kotkaniemi ? I’m saying Kutz so MTL is absurd because of Kutz attitude
12 jun à 0 h 38
#23
You know nothing
Rejoint: jan 2017
Messages: 3,256
Mentions "j'aime": 1,734
Ah. Classic case of "I want your 20 y.o. Talent, playing down his value by comparing his stats to a 30 y.o."

Not interested to trade away our future for your drug addict. So silly to have to even explain this.
12 jun à 0 h 41
#24
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 1,313
Mentions "j'aime": 420
lol this AGM is pointless.

From Habs perspective Kuznetsov won't fit with Habs due to his off-ice attitude.

From Caps perspective Right now Kuznetsov is the better player and Caps are sort of in win-mode so why bother waiting for KK to develop (IF he ever reach Kopitar/Barkov as predicted at the draft)?
By the time KK reach his peak, will Ovechkin, Backstrom and Carlson still be as good as they are now?
 
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