What I've learned today: Kings fans have no idea what the true value of own their players are.

I get it, the past few years have been tough and any signs of light at the end of the tunnel will get you excited. But being outside the playoffs after 20 games means absolutely nothing. Kings are bottom of the league in expected goals percentage at 5v5 so I would be looking for them to come back to earth.

I’ve wanted that guy with the Kings for forever, he’s the top KHL defenseman and just needs to adjust to the NHL. Leafs don’t likely care for him so you can get him plus players.

Dermott has 1 poing in 17 games. Clague has 3 points in 9 games and other than 4 games last season, those are his first games. Given what Dermott has done in the 3 years he's been in the league, I'm sure the Kings would rather protect Clague.

At the cost of who though? I'm not comfortable giving up our prospects for a guy that has shown more signs of not being able to adapt to the NHL than the other way around.

LOL Clague is only a year younger than Dermott and can't crack one of the worst D corps in the league. And when you start quoting points totals for defensemen over 9 games you've already lost the argument.

Yeah Lethonen might fetch a mid-round pick. We agree on this much at least!

I mean this trade isn’t happening, Blake won’t trade away Vilardi, but Kupari for Lehtonen and Liljegren. I’d do it.

DEAL!!!

I can assure you, the Kings don't see it as the "light at the end of the tunnel" and don't worry I know the tactic of trying to convince fans their player isn't as good as he is so you can make the trade happen, but that doesn't work on most people here and definitely not Kings fans.

Vilardi is a Calder candidate and is 2nd in votes in our division. Obviously Kaprizov is going to win it, but it shows you how the league sees Vilardi, not just the Kings fans.

Vilardi is off limits no matter how bad you want to downplay his value.

We can probably get Lehtonen for a pick though lol

I'd rather do Thomas tbh. Kupari was at the top of the AHL, not worth trading him at this time.

I don't feel like I lost an argument. Kings don't want Dermott because no matter what, he's going to Seattle.

Where are these Calder votes you're talking about? You realize the voting happens at the end of the year right?

And also, I'm entirely open to the fact that the trade as proposed might not work. It's statements like "Kings say no to Vilardi for Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott", or "the Kings would protect Clague over Dermott" that show you're over-valuing your players.

Don't see the Kings making that deal;.....but don't see the Leafs doing it either. Liljegren is against playing well in the AHL and expected to be full time Leaf next year and Dermot is full time NHL Dman

It’s true and I’m probably getting the Kings fleeced here, the Kings won’t trade Kupari until they play him and see how he looks, but I think Kupari will end up being the piece we move to address defense at some point.

So what you're saying is it's a reasonable trade, but fanbases over-value their own prospects. Got it!

look, only Leafs fans arnt allowed to want value for their players

It was on the NHL App news feed the other day.

Again, Dermott would be lost to Seattle because we can't protect him so it would basically be Liljegren and Sandin which is declined by LA. No team ever trades their 21 year old 2C for prospects. Ever. I don't care about value, it doesn't happen nor should it. Dermott has been in the NHL on one of the best offensive teams in the league and hasn't done anything worth protecting him over Clague. Clague played 18-20 mins a game and did great, he's not worth losing so we can protect Dermott.

Still if we can trade Akil Thomas to address those needs, we should do that first.

One more time because I have nothing better to do: Kale Clague is almost 23 years old and is currently playing in the AHL. Travis Dermott is 24 years old and has played 175 games on a far superior team. And he has consistently won the minutes he's been given by any reasonable metric.

I don't care lol we have Anderson and Bjornfot, Dermott will be playing 3LD in LA too. Clague is a late bloomer, we might as well see what we have in him once he's full developed than protect a mediocre 3rd pair LD that has probably reached his potential.

I don't care what you say kid, Kings don't want Dermott!

Pronman's list of best under-23-year-old players (this includes both NHL players and prospects) from January 8th had:

Sandin #71 in his high-end/very good bubble tier (top-line or pairing and second-line or pairing bubble)
Vilardi #91 in his very good player tier (second line forward/second pairing D)

However, I would not trade Vilardi one-for-one if I were LA, despite LA having tons of C prospect depth with Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari, Madden, and despite Sandin actually fitting what Friedman said Blake is looking for, for the simple reason that Vilardi is a big C who is already filling a regular NHL role who they have no reason to trade.



Lehtonen is 27. Friedman said Blake is looking for a 25-or younger dynamic LHD.

Incidentally, saying that Sandin couldn't beat out Dermott or Lehtonen for ice time is misleading. Keefe made clear in camp that there was no competition for roster spots, so beating someone out was not possible (the view at The Athletic was that Sandin was far better than either Dermott or Lehtonen in the sole pre-season blue vs white game, and having watched the game it seemed really clear that Sandin easily better). Dermott requiring waivers on a team with zero cap space meant that there was no chance he was going to get moved off the roster. Lehtonen being an over-seas free agent who Toronto promised a roster spot to on a team that is obsessed with keeping that overseas free agent pipeline open no matter what, meant that there was no possibility the Leafs' were going to play Sandin over Lehtonen (despite the latter rarely getting into games because even though he is strong offensively Lehtonen can't play defense at all and his defensive numbers are arguably the worst the league).

Cracking the Leafs' D lineup is not based on merit and is instead based on waivers and promising positions to free agents, especially over-seas free agents, so it is kind of irrelevant - none of Anderson, Bjornfot or Clague could have won a position even if they were playing like Bobby Orr. Maata would be given a spot though.

Not quite. Dermott is a NHL Dman and it looks like Liljegren is can be a long term RHD as Leaf. And Villardi is playing in the NHL. So I don't think fan bases are over valuing their prospects, it's just that the trade although maybe fair isn't a fit.

Alright relax sweetheart. Just trying to provide some education here as a public service.