Detroit passes that is way more than Detroit can give up for Murray.

Their fourth pick in the draft and a B+ prospect buried behind Sieder/Hronek and possibly Drysdale is too much for a potential franchise goalie? You're almost certainly overrating draft picks and discounting the reality that Johnson probably helps you more than Lindstrom does short term

Coming from someone that really dislikes DET...I agree that this is too much for DET to give up. Yzerman isn't looking to accept other teams cap dumps...JJ... He'd rather develop his own players OR sign guys to a 1 year deal and flip them at the TDL. He's a very savy GM.

Yes but Johnson isn't a cap dump on Detroit, he's a legitimate upgrade. Worst D core in the league and he'd be a decent veteran presence they could actually use

But he's not the solution either. Developing REAL players and committing to the rebuild is the solution.

Their third pick in the second round and Lindstrom are both lottery picks with minimal chances of being guaranteed NHLers. Murray is a REAL player that can see them through a rebuild, not sure how this is confusing. It's fair value for a young, potentially franchise goalie

Detroit has enough veterans not contributing on the ice but rather with their presence. What Detroit needs are guys that perform on the ice. There are also so many decent defenseman in FA (Edmundsson, Dillon, Demelo, etc) this year that shouldn’t break the bank. I wouldn’t mind taking him but it’s going to cost Hallinder.

It's not confusing. You're just overvaluing PIT players. Seems pretty simple. Just because DET has cap space doesn't mean they need to waste it. They should be trying to sign Krug or Pietrangelo or offering 1 year deals to Erik Gustafsson or Justin Schultz or whomever doesn't find a solid home so that DET can flip them at the TDL.

If Johnson can play for Pens he can play for Detroit, end of conversation. I'll even throw in one of Lafferty or Rodrigues if the difference in your mind is Hallander, neither is that far off value wise. Murray can also perform on the ice better than either piece coming back, so I just don't understand this argument. Does Detroit win more games next year with that 2nd round pick with like a 25% chance of making the NHL and Lindstrom, or with Murray in net?

I'm actually fairly valuing a 2nd round pick and Lindstrom, you're undervaluing Johnson and Murray. No UFA defenseman is signing in Detroit when they can make the same elsewhere. And again, happy to throw in one of Rodrigues or Lafferty. The trade would greatly benefit Detroit

But they can't. That's the point. AND there will be PLENTY of guys wanting a 1 year deal because this is the absolute wrong year to be looking for a big long term deal. The cap isn't going up.

So you're advocating for Detroit overpaying a defenseman that would otherwise resign with their current team?

Umm, what?

Yeah, Murray, the one with two cups

That's how CHI got Brian Campbell to the team with the worst record in hockey. Yeah. BUT AGAIN, that's Plan B. DET has options. Like i already said. Sign Erik Gustafsson to a 1 year deal. Or Demelo. Or Edmunsson. Those guys want big contracts....but no one's going to give them one this year. DET can sign them and flip'em at the TDL. That would be the smartest thing to do.

I still have yet to hear how signing those guys and flipping them for picks helps them more than getting a starting goaltender anytime in the next three years

I never once mentioned anything about the impact Murray may have on this team but rather how JJ is useless to Detroit unless futures are attached. Yeah, I would like Murray for Lindstrom + EDM 2nd but not with JJ attaches or I’d just go into FA to get a stopgap. Your rationale of being able to play on the Pens is pointless. Lucic can play in Calgary, do you want to trade for him? How about Ladd, Backes, etc. GMs play guys because they’re being paid millions to do so especially if that GM signed the individual. I’d be pretty ticked as an owner if my GM signed a guy to multiple millions just to have him riding the press box. Just because Detroit has open cap space doesn’t mean we are in the business of taking cap dumps for guys that won’t move the needle.

Why wouldn't they just sign Lehner and not be forced to have JJ? Lehner > Matt Murray. But I doubt they even do that. They'll let Bernier keep the net. He was actually a better goalie than Murray last year....and had a historically bad team in front of him.

Except Murray does move the needle and trades with extra cap attached happen all the time. See Teräväinen, Teuvo. Including Johnson is mutually beneficial and makes the trade fair value. His slightly overpaid contract does not hurt Detroit the way that it does Pittsburgh

Lehner would have to want to sign in Detroit, by all accounts he's staying in Vegas. Bernier is five years older (does not fit their core) and has a worse track record outside of this year

That fact that JJ’s cap hurts Pittsburgh is the precise reason Detroit has leverage in any negotiation. We also know you probably can keep only one of your goalies which also plays into negotiation. It also is a GREAT goalie FA this year. Also the knowledge that Murray played behind a better defense so what would he look like in front of Detroit’s? I’m not going to pretend to watch 20+ Pen games a season but he didn’t exactly post franchise goalie numbers this year sub 90% SV. Is that due to injury? If so, will it linger or effect play in the future? If JJ’s cap hit is really hurting you guys and your FO sees Murray as a franchise guy then asking for Hallander + JJ for a mid pick or FC is the easiest decision of their lives.

It's a stretch to say Johnson's cap is 'really hurting us.' Murray's regular season career SV% is .914, Carey Price's is .917 so year, franchise goalie numbers. Murray's numbers are actually better in the playoffs. His numbers were also back to normal before play stopped. We can also keep both goalies and 'let' Seattle take one, in which case Murray's value is the player we would otherwise lose - one of McCann, Blueger, or Hornqvist. Wouldn't trade any of those three for a 2nd and Lindstrom, so Murray's value must be higher than that.

Detroit passes, I agree with all the wings posters on here. Murray and his warehouse if rebounds can stay with you, especially for that price and taking JJ. Sorry pal, flat cap means you pay to get rid of bad contracts or you can keep them. Matt murray doesn't help Detroit, but Lindstrom and the 2nd does

Thanks bud, but you’re delusional if you don’t think Murray helps Detroit

How is VEGAS going to sign Lehner?!?! They have bigger cap issues than PIT and he's played 3 total games there. What he's actually said...and I'm directly quoting the words out of his mouth.

"I’ve taken discounts my whole life. I’m not a guy that wants to be overpaid either. I want to gain some respect that I think I deserve and we’ll see if that happens or not."

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0NoMoagG/robin-lehner-isnt-looking-to-take-a-discount-on-his-next-contract