Okay, so I don’t expect this to happen, but it’s fun to think about adding some high picks in the upcoming draft. Colorado has assets and cap space to play with, so might as well get a little crazy. Pretty sure most of you will hate it. Anyway, here goes…
The Avs part with one of the best prospects in hockey, along with Compher and a pretty decent prospect with a cool nickname (Rambo Santa), but add an underrated player in Danault, a good young defenseman in Mete, and a couple of high picks. The first rounder would need to be conditional for the Habs to consider this. If they end up with #1 overall, then the pick moves to next year and they add their second in 2020 to the package.
Colorado then turns around and moves Zadorov, Donskoi, and a couple picks they acquired to Florida for their first and a defensive depth option in Priskie. The same conditions on the Montreal pick would probably have to apply here as well.
Finally, the team uses its remaining cap space to take on Bjugstad from the Pens. They move up in the draft for their troubles. Perhaps they can flip him during the year to a team that has had some injuries.
With the trades out of the way, Colorado then signs Toffoli in free agency. He fills the spot vacated by Donskoi on the second line.
The expansion draft gets a little crazier without Byram, who would be exempt, but I think it’s workable. For forwards, the team protects the entire first and third lines but leaves both Toffoli and Kadri unprotected. The protect Makar, Girard, and Graves (Johnson waives his NMC) on D, and then Grubauer as well. This means Seattle is essentially picking between Mete, Kadri, and Toffoli. I would assume they take one of the forwards, which helps from a cap perspective and allows the team to sign Makar, Landeskog, and whoever is left between Toffoli and Kadri to extensions.
I see the draft as bringing something like Zary, Lapierre, and O’Rourke, but sub in whoever you like.
Sakic and company would need like a whole year off to recovery from this, but it’s easy on CF! Feel free to rip me in the comments (I know you will)!
I think utilization is something that should be considered though. Byram won't be getting time on PP1. Look what happened to Barrie when he wasn't getting that time. Yes Byram projects to be a better defender too, but I think it's a fair question as to whether they can utilize him properly.
Don’t disagree but there isn’t anything saying they can’t play on PP1 together either because of their shots. As for Barrie well Babcock paid for that mishandling as well as others.
Don’t disagree but there isn’t anything saying they can’t play on PP1 together either because of their shots. As for Barrie well Babcock paid for that mishandling as well as others.
I don't see Byram being on the unit it when you have Makar, MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, etc. Agree about Babcock, but even when he got the ax Barrie didn't have the same success as he did when he was the guy.
Graves comparables: age, GP, PTS, & position (D), indicate under $2M on a strictly RFA deal.
It's widely known that Hayes forced PHI to overpay. Landy ain't no Logan Couture.
Nuke doesn't have any contract leverage, so there's no reason to give him a multi year deal at this time.
Which players are the Graves comparables you're referring to?
Hayes aside Lee still got that same contract. Landeskog might take a team-friendly deal but he could easily ask for $8m if not more.
Fair point on Nichuskin. Given how he played this season I think it would be in our interest to lock him in for 2-3 years so as to ensure that we can get him at a cheap caphit from 2021-23 after the Makar and Landeskog resignings take their toll on our capspace.
I think utilization is something that should be considered though. Byram won't be getting time on PP1. Look what happened to Barrie when he wasn't getting that time. Yes Byram projects to be a better defender too, but I think it's a fair question as to whether they can utilize him properly.
It's a reasonable point to make regarding PP time. In that sense Byram is somewhat expendable, particularly as we have Girard and/or Timmins to run PP2 as well.
That said, even without PP time the luxury of Byram on an ELC giving us 3 dominant D pairs in transition would be too much to pass up.
I just don't want to rely on those guys to make an immediate impact. Hughes didn't with NJ this year. I think he will, but it takes time. Having the depth to ease those guys in is important (IMO), especially since this team is ready to compete now.
I'll say this, maybe the trade is not the way to go. If Danault is made available at the deadline or hits free agency though, I would be all over him. That line of him, Jost, and Nichushkin could be really valuable.
We aren't relying on Newhook or Bowers to make immediate impacts though, since we have Mackinnon, Kadri, Compher, and Jost already who can all help insulate young C's.
Moreover, we're giving both Newhook and Bowers multiple developmental years between being drafted and being promoted into the NHL.
By contrast, NJ were expecting Hughes to step into a top 6 C role immediately in his D+1 year.
Don’t disagree but there isn’t anything saying they can’t play on PP1 together either because of their shots. As for Barrie well Babcock paid for that mishandling as well as others.
Toronto's PP1 unit plays the vast majority of the PP's, so it's a very binary situation for a player if they aren't on PP1.
In Colorado though our PP2 does still get a reasonable amount of TOI, so it would be less of a concern than with Toronto.
You could be right. Again, I'm not advocating in favor of this per se. I'm advocating that it might make some sense and is worth thinking about though.
If I'm Sakic and Bergevin came to me with this offer, it would definitely be enough to make me mull it over. I'd rather get Barkov or Eichel, but that probably isn't gonna happen. Having a deep, high end team when others are being gutted due to the cap could be a big advantage. But like you say, so can an uber prospect on an ELC, who is exempt from the xdraft us too.
Oops, meant to quote the post about Byram in an ELC being too good to pass up.
You could be right. Again, I'm not advocating in favor of this per se. I'm advocating that it might make some sense and is worth thinking about though.
If I'm Sakic and Bergevin came to me with this offer, it would definitely be enough to make me mull it over. I'd rather get Barkov or Eichel, but that probably isn't gonna happen. Having a deep, high end team when others are being gutted due to the cap could be a big advantage. But like you say, so can an uber prospect on an ELC, who is exempt from the xdraft us too.
Oops, meant to quote the post about Byram in an ELC being too good to pass up.
Byram --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Graves -- Timmins
Cole
2 of those on ELC's....
.... THERE is the competitive advantage with the cap.
And a MUCH bigger advantage than having a better 3C who's going to ask for at least Pageau money to extend.
Byram --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Graves -- Timmins
Cole
2 of those on ELC's....
.... THERE is the competitive advantage with the cap.
And a MUCH bigger advantage than having a better 3C who's going to ask for at least Pageau money to extend.
I might agree TBH. I really like Danault though. He's underrated (IMO) and provides that close to Selke caliber center that the Avs lack. I'd really like to get away from the 3C thing, as he would be 2Cb or whatever you want to call it. There is no reason (IMO) that a third line needs to meet the traditional third line criteria. Here you have a trio that can match up against the best the opposition has to offer and even outscore them on many nights. That's a pretty big deal.
I'll also reiterate that it's not just Byram vs. Danault but Byram (a great prospect) vs Danault (a really good player) + 2020 First (i.e. a really good prospect) + a couple more assets. And you still have a really solid long-term top four in Makar, Graves, Girard, and Timmins.
Not saying that should sway you, but I think it keeps getting oversimplified.
Have a hard time believing the pens have to add to move Jugs.
Too many teams have a need at center. He's low right high reward.
They might not get much for him in a trade, but I highly doubt they have to pay to move him.
Have a hard time believing the pens have to add to move Jugs.
Too many teams have a need at center. He's low right high reward.
They might not get much for him in a trade, but I highly doubt they have to pay to move him.
You're likely right. The wrench in the gears is that tons of teams will want to move out salary though, so there will be competition in order to do so. He probably has a high enough reward that you're correct though.
I might agree TBH. I really like Danault though. He's underrated (IMO) and provides that close to Selke caliber center that the Avs lack. I'd really like to get away from the 3C thing, as he would be 2Cb or whatever you want to call it. There is no reason (IMO) that a third line needs to meet the traditional third line criteria. Here you have a trio that can match up against the best the opposition has to offer and even outscore them on many nights. That's a pretty big deal.
I'll also reiterate that it's not just Byram vs. Danault but Byram (a great prospect) vs Danault (a really good player) + 2020 First (i.e. a really good prospect) + a couple more assets. And you still have a really solid long-term top four in Makar, Graves, Girard, and Timmins.
Not saying that should sway you, but I think it keeps getting oversimplified.
I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree that an elite 3C (or 2Cb or whatever) would be amazing.
That said, there are other ways to acquire that sort of player without trading Byram+.
For example, drop a $6m+ offersheet on Cirelli and you'd only be paying a late 1st + 3rd for him in 2021.
I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree that an elite 3C (or 2Cb or whatever) would be amazing.
That said, there are other ways to acquire that sort of player without trading Byram+.
For example, drop a $6m+ offersheet on Cirelli and you'd only be paying a late 1st + 3rd for him in 2021.
Cirelli is either option A or B for me, with Hall being the other letter. I like having an option C, D, etc. though too.
In reality, I think the team signs Hall. I really do. It just makes too much sense. And it works from a cap perspective, so long as Hall walks the walk and signs with a contender like he says. Q: Which other teams besides Colorado play a style that fits his game, are current contenders, and won't have to gut their roster to afford him? A: There aren't any.
Which players are the Graves comparables you're referring to?
Hayes aside Lee still got that same contract. Landeskog might take a team-friendly deal but he could easily ask for $8m if not more.
Fair point on Nichuskin. Given how he played this season I think it would be in our interest to lock him in for 2-3 years so as to ensure that we can get him at a cheap caphit from 2021-23 after the Makar and Landeskog resignings take their toll on our capspace.
I looked at the Contract Comparables link. Chose Defensemen. Moved the slider almost all the way up for PTS & GP. I looked at players both age 24 & 25. Went back about 6-7 yrs. See, Graves will be 25 this summer, which makes a big difference. An arbitrator would look at this same data and award a short term deal, probably under $2M aav. Age 24 players did sometimes get 3+ yrs, but Graves is too old...
Regarding Nuke, I wouldn't be opposed to a multi-year deal at or around $3M aav. I just think it's important to keep flexibility, and he isn't going anywhere anyways.
I looked at the Contract Comparables link. Chose Defensemen. Moved the slider almost all the way up for PTS & GP. I looked at players both age 24 & 25. Went back about 6-7 yrs. See, Graves will be 25 this summer, which makes a big difference. An arbitrator would look at this same data and award a short term deal, probably under $2M aav. Age 24 players did sometimes get 3+ yrs, but Graves is too old...
Regarding Nuke, I wouldn't be opposed to a multi-year deal at or around $3M aav. I just think it's important to keep flexibility, and he isn't going anywhere anyways.
Avs are in WIN now. We have enough prospects.. Bowen Byram is DONE marinating in the minors.. He is ready to join the big boy club. No reason for the Avs to trade him and others to get 3 first rd picks. And wait 2-3 years for them to be ready.. We are in WIN NOW MODE>
We are not in position to take a camp dump. We are in position to use that cap to sign a player that CAN HELP US WIN THE CUP. not change a 6th rd pick to a 3rd rd pick. Thats ridiculous
Avs are in WIN now. We have enough prospects.. Bowen Byram is DONE marinating in the minors.. He is ready to join the big boy club. No reason for the Avs to trade him and others to get 3 first rd picks. And wait 2-3 years for them to be ready.. We are in WIN NOW MODE>
We are not in position to take a camp dump. We are in position to use that cap to sign a player that CAN HELP US WIN THE CUP. not change a 6th rd pick to a 3rd rd pick. Thats ridiculous
This is about wining now. Upgrading Compher to Danault and Donskoi to Toffoli could pay huge dividends. If you can do that and also add a couple firsts in a deep draft, then it's at least worth thinking about. Zadorov is probably gone either way, so no big deal there.
I'd argue that even if Byram joins the team next year, he's not going to make an immediate impact like Makar did. Both Cale and Quinn Hughes spent two years in college prior to making the jump. And even then what they accomplished is extremely rare. Bringing along two rookie defensemen in Timmins and Byram is risky for a win now team, which is why exploring options is a good idea (IMO).
In terms of the cap dump, who are you signing to replace any of the guys in that lineup? I think it's pretty much set outside of some additional depth in the event of injuries. A guy like Bjugstad provides such depth and only has a single year on his contract. If you make your moves and find that there is still cap space available, then why just sit on it? That should probably be the least controversial part of this thing, as it's not like the team would be taking on multiple years of a bad deal.
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