I also think you may be overestimating Jokiharju's ceiling, he is a slick puck mover but I am not sure his defensive game shouts elite. Robertson is going to be a sniper in a big way. I don't think TO moves him without a very good return. Jokiharju would be a good return and I'd say that's all you're getting. Otherwise, TO could just keep the defence the way it is and have another elite offensive player on their hands that can get sheltered minutes while he's breaking into the league and dominate.

Nylander

Pretty fair assessment. The value isn't wildly off but Buffalo still says no. No interest in trading him. It'd have to be a sizable overpay.

Agreed. I think that he would/should be one of the last guys Buffalo considers trading. That is a building block. There are other more prudent moves to the D core that should be more pertinent.

Lmao chill what Jokiharju package for Nylander would be acceptable then - Jokiharju + Mittelstadt + 2021 top 5 prot first I think is pretty fair

I think the basis is Robertson for Jokiharju. But I don't think either team would really look at that unless the Leafs defence 2 months into next season is a problem .

The order in which the Sabres would move a right d is Tisto, Montour, Miller then Jokiharju. You are likely going to have to overpay to get a defenseman who has gaired as well as he has at such a young age with so many years of team control ahead of him. So you are probably looking at a deal including Nylander if it was with Toronto or multiple pieces going from Toronto to Buffalo and those pieces would need to have quality. Just dont think Toronto would be a good fit as a trade partner for this player. Sabres will likely be more intrigued in an offer that would have a 2C involved if Joker is being asked for. Maybe if Calgary decides for some reason they want to move Monahan and a left d for Joker and Reinhart with likely other pieces involved.

I just can’t see Buffalo moving him. One should think they’re hoping for a future Dahlin/ Jokiharju top pairing.

Neither Ristolainen nor Montour are what Leafs need in my opinion.

Miller would be the best fit of the 3 moveable Sabre’s RD based on team needs/ player style.

Kapanen for Miller won’t work for Toronto I’d imagine

Not sure they’res a deal to be made between the 2 teams honestly. I think Buffalo should be talking trade with Tampa honestly.

That's not at all reasonable or likely. 1st of all, Buffalo would be the team looking to make a move not TO. Secondly Buffalo is the more likely team looking for a bold move. This whole you have to overpay to get someone is only real when you are talking about a desperate team which TO is not. Nylander is going no way and the only way I see any trade involving Jokiharju which is the only player I think TO would care to get, would be if the Leafs defence has major issues this year which I doubt will be the case. If it was, I think Robertson for Jokiharju is a fair trade. A young potential elite goal scorer to ride shotgun to Eichel the playmaker for a young RHD with potential.

Even a desperate team doesn't trade a young defenseman with lots of potential for an unproven prospect. Perhaps for proven NHL center or high end winger, but you aren't going to make Eichel happy by trading roster players that help your team for prospects no matter how high their potential. Additionally the Sabres gave already shown they have a few wingers capable of playing with Jack, Reino, Oloffson, Skinner. What they need is depth that can play away from Jack and carry the play. IMO this player does not address the Sabres needs significantly while creates a large whole right away. So while it may be argued that value wise it is not a good move for the Sabres. If you want a prospect from the Sabres at right D then Borgen would be an option but you obviously will not want to deal Robertson for him. Maybe Bracco

You are expecting a clear cut landslide trade win. That is unreasonable to expect. Robertson is a super high end prospect and Jokiharju is similar. Neither are proven.

To consider trading Jokiharju yes I believe it would. It takes an overpay to convince a team to trade a player they have no.interest in trading. Additionally Jokiharju has played over 100 games in the nhl where as Robertson has played none. That doesn't mean Robertson will not end up being a player but there is a much greater chance that he ends up being a player that cannot be a difference maker in the nhl where is Joker has already shown he can hold his own at that level. 2 years ago Middlestadt was the 2nd highest rated prospect outside of the nhl behind petterson from Vancouver and 2 years later he is in the ahl trying to get his development back on track. The Sabres cannot afford to trade a player that helps rhem.significantly right now for one that might in a year or two.

Now this could work but Buffalo wont move him. Maybe the new GM says otherwise but I feel Miller, Montour, and Ristolinen are higher up in terms of players most likely to get traded

You're going to be spinning your tires for a long time then.

Joker isn't the Sabres only asset. And they will be spinning g their tires for much longer if Jack requests a trade because they traded one of their best players for a prospect

Tell me, using your logic, why would TO ever want to move one of their high value young players for a less than fair deal? Buffalo won't make a trade unless it's an overpay, why would TO?

Not saying they would I didn't propose this trade. Nor have I proposed the Sabres trading for Robertson or any one elses prospects for that matter. My contention is that the Sabres should be looking to make moves for proven nhl players. We have prospects with upside and more coming top 10 pick this year. What the Sabres need are players that can play depth roles in their lineup now. We need a 2C stopgap for 1-2 seasons and a middle six RW. It makes much more sense for the Sabres to move one or two of their other right shot D that are not a part of the long term plan for help in those areas. While Robertson may have a much higher upside, I would argue that a player like Kerfoot or Kapanen would be much more appropriate targets for the Sabres. I doubt you advocate trading Morgan Reilly for say a Johnny Goudreau even if Goudreau is the better player.

He isn't better than Rielly and no I wouldn't propose that trade. TO is also in a win now mode with an eye to keeping it sustainable. So moving for a player like Jokiharju does make sense but not at the expense of the current roster. If Adams went for Kapanen for Jokiharju I'd do it but I doubt that'll happen. I think if there was discussion, Robertson would be the logical target of Buffalo. Asking for Nylander is just ridiculous.

Whether you agree they should be or not the Sabres are in a win now mode. If they don't show progress this year they risk Eichel asking out. That does not mean they should be desperate but also means they shouldn't be making moves that make their team worse now for future upside. Robertson would not be all that appealing in 2 years if there is none to get the puck to him. See Jeff Skinner.

So if they are in win now mode, the Sabres will be acting out of desperation. So they won't be in a situation where they can dictate terms. TO has a tonne of depth, good young players still in the system and talent all over the lineup. They don't need to do anything and I doubt they will do anything. So for the Sabres to call up the Leafs and say what will you give us for one of our defenceman, perhaps Miller? TO is going to likely say, we have no interest but we'd like Jokiharju, and then the Sabres will have to entice the Leafs to make the move. If you say, how about Jokiharju and Middlestadt for Nylander, the Leafs would say not a chance, how about Kapanen for Jokiharju. That's the way it goes. Either its a fair hockey trade or one team is operating out of a position of weakness. In this case that would definitely be the Sabres since in your own words they need to win now to keep Eichel happy. TO is winning and they will only get better with the lineup they have.

First off I don't think the leafs are any where near the top of the list of teams they would be reaching out too to make a deal. If the Leafs were to reach out to the Sabres and ask for Jokiharju then I would expect the Sabres to say perhaps I can interest you in one of our other defenseman or prospects. The leafs say no the Sabres say ok thank you not a fit. Unless the Sabres are getting a bonafide 2C back I don't think that is a player they consider moving. Good thing for the Sabres and the leafs is there are 28 other teams in the league. So if there is not a deal that both GMs feel helps their organizations right away and in the future they can find different trading partners. One would have to assume that Colorado wasn't the only team the leafs tried to trade for a defenseman with, but likely there was not a deal for a better defenseman that Dubas thought was fair.

oof no thanks