Don't have to retain on Chychrun and he's not gonna cost that much. That's what you guys paid for 2.5 years of Chychrun, only a year left that value will be lower

That's not what we paid for 2.5 year of Chychrun.



#12 overall in 2023 >>>>>>>> #20 overall in 2024

#49 overall in 2024 > #54 overall in 2024

Ottawa's 2nd in 2026 >>>> #61 overall in 2024

Oh boo hoo the picks are a bit lower. Good luck getting the value you traded for him, Isles aren't paying that

I wasn't asking for the value we traded for him ...

The 2024 picks were unknown at the time as Ottawa was making their playoff push at the time...

So, Dorion thought, in making this deal, the picks would be roughly the same... making @cmarch's point correct

Thank you. The main difference is the 1sts. Dorion thought it would be a really late 2nd in 2024 which matches pick 54 and I'll take the other 2024 pick over a pick that at the time was 4 drafts out at the time.

There was barely any playoff push at the time, if any.

Too far back in the standings after a slow start to the season.



And cmarch's point is that this return has the exact same value as what Ottawa paid for Chychrun.

Which is not correct ...

There 100% was... Ottawa was 2 pts back of FLO at the time (who had the 2nd wild card spot)...

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/2023/03/1/


So @cmarch's point is correct as Dorion thought, at the time of the trade, that the pick would be in the 16th-20th range, and making the 2nd in the 50-55 range...

That fact that OTT faded at the end had nothing to do with Dorion's perceived value of spending those assets

It doesn't matter what Dorion thought the picks were worth at the time.

What matters is where the picks ultimately ended up.



Also, the wild card spots in the East were held by Pittsburgh and the Isles on March 1st, 2023.

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2023-03-01/wildcard

Ottawa had to leapfrog not just Florida, but at least 3 other teams in the East as well.

I guess that makes you incorrect as well ...

That's not true... If you're value of the pick is pick 7... You will be less likely to trade it... Think Treliving vs Dubas, Dubas was more likely to trade away the Leafs 1st bc he thought it would be pick 32... Whereas Tre valued the pick at pick 20-25, thus valuing it as such. It's why you don't see rebuilding teams trading their 1sts often and if they do, it's for a lot.

And that's fair... But Ottawa was also just 6 points back, Dorion was obviously making a playoff push

On March 1st, 2023, Ottawa was ranked #22 in the league.

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2023-03-01/league

Which means Ottawa held the 11th best lottery odds on a pick that ultimately ended up being #12 overall.

The pick should have been evaluated based on where it was at the time, not on what it could become under the most ideal scenario.

If a GM can't see that, he shouldn't have a job.



Also, the # of teams you need to leapfrog to clinch a playoff spot is just as important as the # of points you need to catch up to those teams.

If not more so.

Too much for Chychrun.

No. What matters is how Dorian valued the picks at the time.

Retroactively changing the valuation is dum

Dorion wasn't even competent enough to value picks.

It's like Kevin Malone trying to value the weight of a pot of chilli when carrying it into the office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcYG-5b7448

Dorion had no idea what he was doing.

He'd give away picks like they were free candy, and had no problem getting mediocre returns thinking they were the best trades ever made.

Pierre Dorion was an amateur employee in a professional role he had no business being in.

So whether he knew the value of the trades or not (which I'd lean towards the latter), he was a dumb f**k.

Now we're left picking up the pieces to try and get back on track.

Rebuilding team trading away #7 + #12 (Obviously we didn't know where the 1st would land in the Chych deal but it was obviously going to be a lottery pick) is just malpractice. The guy set this team back so far. If we had those 2nds + Korchinski + But (Or Benson who went right after and thats who I would've wanted at #12) this team would be in a much better spot.

Now we have such high expectations of Staios to turn it around when the guy barely has anything to play with and he's in a terrible spot. Reality is this team is likely not a playoff team next season and big changes will need to be made to fix what Dorion did.

Great, so we can go to normal trade returns?

Chychrun clearly worse than Hanifin.

Hanifin returned 1st+3rd+reclamation project

You don't get to decide what a normal trade return is for Ottawa.

And the team that trades for Chychrun will get a full 82 game season out of him at 2.3 million.

As opposed to when Hanifin was traded as a pending UFA at the deadline.

This^ and OTT's points percentage was fourth in the WC race (they just played less games)

Teams only care about the playoff run when buying rentals.

In fact there’s less risk to buying your rental at the deadline

Isles are not paying that price....

1. If you think that Dorion was competent enough to place a value on a draft pick, then you're just as competent as he is.



2. On March 1st of 2023, Ottawa had to leapfrog the following teams to clinch a wild card spot:

Washngton
Florida
Buffalo
And then either the Pens or the Isles

To suggest they were anything but a heavy underdog to clinch a wild card spot at the time would be optimistic at best.

Except that Chychrun won't be a rental when he signs an extension with the team that trades for him.

And there will be other teams that will be interested in Chychrun for which a playoff run isn't even a guarantee.

If a team risks waiting until the deadline to trade for Chychrun, it might be already too late if that team is in grave danger of missing the playoffs.

The GM of the Isles is an octogenarian that spent a 1st + a 2nd on Pageau and then the #13 overall pick on Romanov.

You don't speak for him.

Except Chychrun is ineligible to sign an extension until July 1st