I dont think 11mil expiring UFA, coming off his worst year and even worse showing in playoffs carries that value.

And same for Liljegren who enters his 7th pro season as still just a 3rd pairing guy, on a team so depserate for defenders that annually they go out at the trade deadline and acquire two defensive starters, and then is a healthy scratch in playoffs two years running? (and you've given him 4.8mil?)

Marner for Markstrom and Mangiapane (50%) retained is probably closer

If 69 games and 85 points is Marner's worst season, then I am scared to see when he is on fire, with the flames, pun intended.
Marner needs to play away from home, needs a mental reset, and a fresh start.

Liljegren, is a good player, but the Maple Leafs keep switching his D-pair around, like a merry-go-round, moving him up and down the lineup. How is this man suppose to settle in with so much instability? (And he does not fit as well into Toronto's d-scheme, compared to what management think they want, eg. very physical.) Over the last three seasons Liljegren has played 183 games, playing less due to being a healthy scratch. During those 183 games he has 64 points, a 0.35ppg average for a defensemen. Much better than Rasmus Sandin (an LD), who fetched a first, and afterwards signed for 5 years at 4.6m.
Which RD comes into the league and has played 7 pro seasons by the time he is 25? No one. Most defenseman start in the NHL after playing 2-3 years in the minors or overseas. Liljegren has 3 "full" (60 game) seasons under his belt. Give him a break, and blame the coaching staff for this mess. Expecting players to succeed with so little patience, is a hallmark for continuous first round exits.

If the Leafs lose later today, the first thing they need to do is fire Sheldon Keefe, (and break up the core four). I believe Marner is the odd man out.

Maybe, but I dont think you're selling high on either player.

And Marner who's production wasn;t down, we know with the leafs regular season offensive production is over rated, its his overall game/importance. Marner's value is hurt by the fact that he is small, one dimensional, non physical, and seems mentally fragile/selfish/? (main reasons Toronto fans want rid of him), but also to the fact that hes probably a 13+mil re-sign as a player making winger, and similar to Gaudreau (who was a UFA) might not have his one asset (offensive production) on a lesser team that isnt a regular season offensive powerhouse.

As far as Liljegren, its partly Toronto's system, but he hasn;t shown the offensive upside or physical upside to be a top 4. Toronto over just the past 2 years has brought in a combo of defensive and offensive guys, some getting far more minutes (and some not a healthy scratch) in McCabe, Schenn, Gustaffsson, Klingberg, Benoit, Edmundsen, Lyubushkin. Liljegren will be going into his EIGHTH pro season in North America with less than 200 NHL games. If he cant be a top 4 in toronto, with their defensive turnover and need, theres not a ton of teams he could be. I just dont see a higher upside than we've seen and he'd have to be partnered with the right player. I just don;t see him getting what Sandin got (and even that looked like an end of the round 1st), maybe a late 2nd, because Sandin got that return based on less information. Liljegren's stock in the past 2 years is going lower, not higher.

I just dont see anyone giving equal or better value in trade for these two right now, but then you're never going to get a "marner" for a "marner" but you might get multiple pieces which are better for the team or make the team better.

Genuinely a horrible horrible trade for the Flames

How would you like the rebuild to go. Don't think Backlund would be happy about that at all.
I believe the Flames need a re-tool.

Take out Lilly, Markstrom and Kampf, then deal

I don't think Steve Dangle wants to go with the tandem of Samsonov and Woll again.
And Marner can fetch more than what you are asking for.

Leafs window to compete is now. Don't see them finding a better goalie than Markstrom.

I'd rather go Woll-Stolarz tbh...

And Mangiapane+Andersson+2nd is a pretty good deal to me IMO... If not, then you can add their 2024 1st...

Leafs Window to Compete is every year
Their Window to win was in 1967
They never truly rebuild they just lean into injury heavy seasons and draft well.
Or over invest in bad contracts and play dumb as to why they can compete properly.

Truth is Marner isnt bad but he's not selling high right now like Markstrom is
IMO you move Marner to DAL in a deal for Benn. Its an upgrade for DAL
Marner would be a good fit in DAL and i think Benn fits in TML as well
With 1 more year left on either contract it gives both a chance to rebound their value on a new team before becoming UFA's.
If they wanted both players could re-sign with their original teams i suppose for some more diehard fans benefit who might not want either to go.

Marner has more value then Benn so it means TML will still get paid to some degree.


With Center Depth like this TML improves while the DAL still has Hintz,Pavelski,Duchene,Faksa and Glendenning who are all high volume Faceoff guys with 4/5 capable of 55%+ faceoff win rate
TML losing Marner on wing hurts but TML opens up almost 2m cap but could pay a 3rd party to RS on Benn if they want more cap
But an upgrade at Center and 2m extra to add an additional players isnt bad as long as the return with it is good.

Interesting trade proposition. Can you provide the exact trade outline, just so I can visualize. As you said Benn for Marner, 1 for 1 won't happen.

Tough call
Im a fan of neither team so likely to take abuse from both.
But to me Benn's value is on the decline but even in his decline he out produces a lot of teams top guys, but 9.5m for 6.5m play at best is a hard sell
Marner is overpaid as well but i feel its not by as big of a margin in fact its so small its barely worth mentioning at 750k-1m and thats based on him disappearing in April and May every year
If he produced id call it fair value but IMO he needs more room to take that next step which is 100% within him , just not in TML IMO

So i value Marner over Benn by a fair margin to the point DAL's 1st this year is a piece not the only piece.
I'd say Marner for Benn , 1st , 3rd and a B+ or A- Prospect?
Or DAL could just RS on Benn and lower the return quite a bit by paying a 3rd party to RS for a 3rd and maybe a Waiver eligible player on the fringe like Oskar Back and now a B- or C+ level player IMO
Lets say Marner for Benn at 4.75m and a 1st would seem palatable to me as TML would be left 6m in cap to sign someone

Its tough because Benn is a Grizzled Veteran making 3m over what he's paid today but it could be 4m next season, who knows?
Even with the Salary Retained at 50% its still a hard thing to argue to TML fans that its worth giving up on Marner.
But i think RS with a 1st giving TML 6m to go shopping would do it.
3 way trades are tricky but not impossible and that 3rd team RS can make a big difference just look at the Petry deal(#2)

DAL could make a deal with Utah or ANA or SJS,ext to RS on Benn
If they move out Faksa they'd be in a much stronger position this year but it isnt needed.
They can kick the can down the road a year on most who need contracts as they go from 15 to 50m cap free
So re-signing Marner actually fits their timeline if they wanted to go that route
Marner would make more and be in a state that defends individual rights at a rate few others do in North America so there is appeal to it even though Hometown Boy playing at home is the goal if he had to choose a runner up DAL is a pretty sweet landing spot IMO

Honestly as a leaf fan I like this idea