Goalie's are silly geese and its why I am so hesitant to spend any kind of assets on one

We have seen guys go from awful to amazing and from amazing to awful

Saros numbers have been consistent but his size and other factors just make it to where its to risky to go spend 1st +++ on him

As lets say Brad goes **** it spends it Saros first season with TOR 50 gp 3.00 GAA and a 0.900SV

That aint good lul.

The goalie market aint crazy this year but going and getting Stolarz or Talbot aint a bad idea

But yea Saros being here would not change the outcome of that game

Maybe he stops one of the PP goals but yea its still 4-1 lul

Everyone top to bottom needs to play better and not take stupid penalties. Oh Matthews line was good no no they werent. If any top line took 4 penalties in a game in which 3 were in the offensive zone and 2 lead to goals what you thinks gonna happen

Treliving is a brand name GM. Going after Saros is on brand for him. Just like Bertuzzi and Domi, names that are popular is what he'll go after, not necessarily the best players or ones that make the most sense.

Saros is a top 3 goalie in this league. If there's ever a scenario where the Leafs can go out and get him, you push HARD for him. He singled handedly clawed the Preds into the playoffs a few seasons ago.

Who won the Leafs the series vs. TBL

Samsonov

Was his numbers good...No but he did it

And how through ensuring no more goals after 3 or 4 and letting his team then tie and win in OT games 3 and 4

Keefe game 2 goes okay lets put Woll in and Woll gives up 4 goals game 2 then what....Jones, Murray, Hildeby? Each goalie should get 2-3 before you go okay they aint it.

We cant just rush the panic button and go oh game 1 sucked here yah go guy whose also struggled vs. BOS. If teams did that there would be no trust

Entire team top to bottom needs to play smarter and not give up the chances they did. Keefe said it best "I would categorize each of their goals from his perspective as good goals,, noting his goalie's lack of run support. "I don't put this on him."

He's not a top 3 at all lul

Sorokin, Shesterkin, Hellebuyck all are better heck a healthy Vasilesky would put that into contention to

He's top 10 but not top 5

I mean you're just flat out wrong. Saros is without a doubt a top goalie in this league. Having him would make a HUGE difference. Literally just look at Swayman last night. Toronto was battering the Bruins for large chunks of time, but Swayman shut it down.

Saros is a perennial Vezina candidate and would immediately be one of the best goalies in Maple Leafs history

Sorokin, Shesterkin, Hellebuyck all are better

Heck a healthy Vasilevskiy is better and you can start to push Demko into the convo for top 5

But as said before spending assets on a goalie is nonsense. We have seen good goalies go bad and bad goalies go good. Look at Murray once was one of the best now he may be a #3 come 2024. Binnington after the cup = Bad till recently, Bobrosky for FLA was so bad at one point they were wondering how to dump that 10m. Last thing TOR needs is to spend on someone who could have a miserable season then hurt us

Want a goalie look at FA or develop one. As Avs and VGK showed you dont need elite goaltending to win.

Not making a move for a guy like Saros because he could maybe be bad would be stupid. You can apply this logic to every trade ever made. You keep saying "he could be bad", but what if he's good? It's far more likely Saros would be good for the Leafs than him being bad.

The criticisms you put against Saros are the exact same things people said about Colorado getting Kuemper, and then Colorado won the Cup. I'd rather spend assets to get a goalie I know is elite rather than roll the dice on a goalie in an extremely weak free agency class. That's just wasting your cores prime years. Developing a goalie is off the table, Leafs want to win now and it takes SO long for Goalies to grow into starters. Colorado is a perfect example that you DO need elite goaltending to win, look at Georgiev this year. When they won the Cup, their goalie was a Vezina finalist. Adin Hill is a great goalie and followed up his Cup winning run with a Vezina caliber season.

Saros is second in wins by a goalie over the last 3 seasons. He's got more wins than Vasi and Helle, and only has 3 less than Shesterkin. Can you honestly look at the Preds over the last 3 years and say that they have had better teams than the Lightning, Jets, or Rangers? Saros is literally the reason for their success. If you honestly think trading for him is a bad idea, then you don't want this team to win.

Its not stupid its smart

Goalies are unpredictable and spending a lot of assets on them is a double edged sword that can blow up in teams faces.

VGK won a cup with their #3, Binnington was on waivers to start that season, etc.

Dallas went to the SCF with Khudobin of all people, Florida went with Bobrosky who just discovered hey I can make saves again, Avs won a cup with Kuemper who didnt have strong playoff numbers


TOR spends 1st + Minten +++ and Saros does not improve his numbers or get us further not good.

We just wasted a good chunk of good assets for nothing.

Smart move is improve the Dcore get a tandem guy and allow Woll to grow. We keep the assets and dont have to go gambling at the Casino.

When is the last time a team won a Cup with a tandem? Addressing goaltending by proxy is a horrible idea, it's the one position you can't cheat. Also, we would be "gambling at the casino" way harder if we do what you suggest rather than just acquiring a top goalie...

Avs won using both their goalies

VGK won using two of their goalies, Hill didnt start

Heck Pittsburgh B2B = Fleury and Murray

Sammy did not win the leafs a series vs Tampa. Matthews and Rielly did. Sammy was awful in 2 of those 6 games, was mediocre in 2 wins and had a couple of good games. That's not good enough. Being just good enough to win when the leafs managed to outscore their problems isn't a ringing endorsement for a goalie. He was not very good vs Florida and allowed a lot of bad goals.

Unfortunately the writings on the wall here. To the surprise of no one, Keefe was soundly out coached in game 1. The shot share is all he will see so he'll say stuff like "we need to be sharper in some areas but all in all I thought we played well, unfortunately they got a lot of good saves and we didn't capitalize on our chances". Which translates to, I will do nothing different.

On a side note, remember that time you mentioned in regards to Woll, "the last thing we need is a 1st shot goal lul" you got it half right. Sammy isn't an NHL starting goalie, to think he still can be after his career numbers and the first half of this season is legit insanity. The guy doesn't have what is needed to win big games.

TO likely comes back and plays better, it may not be enough because Boston is a good team that is better coached and they have goalies who can make a save. By the time Keefe goes to Woll it will likely already be over. And thinking Sammy is going to steal the series is lunacy. Best case with him is he doesn't let in 2-3 softies a game.

Francouz played 7 games in the 21 22 playoffs. Kuemper played 16.

Broissoit played 8 games in the 22 23 playoffs (and was horrible). Hill played 16.

These are not tandems. There is a defined starter and a backup. Tandems do not work, you need a starter and a solid backup. The Leafs currently have neither 🤷‍♂️

Sammy did help the Leafs win that series. If he does not stop that breakaway game 6 we have have had a game 7. He was a factor on top of the team rallying a comeback

Again going to the other goalie to soon does nothing. He lets in 4 whose next Jones, Jones lets in 4 whose next Murray, Murray then lets in 4 whose next oh wait they got swept.

Keefe went to war with Cooper and won. Copper is one of the better coaches in the NHL, BOS is also good but TOR has forced a better version of them into a game 7 twice with the most stubborn coach in the league in Mike Babcock. Leafs are 2-7 in the Matthews game 1 era not concerned about a single game

Everyone top to bottom needs to smarten up as if we keep taking stupid penalties, allowing 2 on 1's and losing puck battles to a single guy when 5 are back in their zone were going no where. Big boyz especially need to wake up

Dont care for posts or shots at the end of the day all we see are 0's

Boston gave him clean looks so while Swayman did actually perform well, and made some really good saves, he didn't have much traffic to look through or much in the way of secondary chances against. So to think the best goalie available would have made that much of a difference is incorrect as well.

The reality of this team is the system isn't working anymore or ever really did for the playoffs. Some of it is personnel and much of it is coaching. keefe is not a cup winning coach. At least not in TO with this team. This has been clear since last year's playoffs.

Francouz won them the series vs. EDM. Might be only 7 games but 4 of them were against EDM in which hey despite the goal totals in the end outbattled Smith and Koskinen letting Avs win in 4.

7 games out of 20 aint bad. Most backups dont even see 3 on a run.

Brossoit played 8 games got hurt and then because Thompson was also hurt along with Lehner they went to Hill the #3 and he helped em win

Again goalies be silly

VGK went out and highlighted it having 3 on standby lul

Still forget Quick was there to

Frankly both of those teams were way better than TO is. It's not entirely the goalies fault but Sammy is without a doubt a bad playoff goalie. Half the time he's a bad regular season goalie. Is Woll the answer? No idea, has a high ceiling and a way better makeup than Sammy does. But we know what Sammy is by now, he's going to have a couple of good games but once the series is over you'll look back at his numbers and they will be below average. If TO can pile on some offence (doesn't look likely vs Boston) they may even end up with a longer series vs Boston but when the coach looks at the one or two good games from Sammy while ignoring the rest of his warts it won't end well. We've seen this before. Sammy is the 2nd best goalie in any series. Hell often he's the 3rd best. He's not going to win us anything.

In general what I have learned through the last 2 winners. Dont need elite goaltending to win. Good goaltending can suffice when everything is clicking.

Last year Sammy was the second best to Vasi but he won. In the VGK playoff push one could argue Hill was second best to Bobrosky and Ottinger. But he helped them win and go on to get a cup

And the shocking thing Hill was VGK's #3 for the majority of that season.

Leafs can win with Sammy they just need to play better.

This is the silliest thing you have ever said. The avs swept the Oilers and blue them out of the water. Francouz needed to not get scored on 10 times a game and that was good enough vs Edmonton. You can't say a goalie won you a series when they get scored on a bunch but managed to outscore their problems.

This is just backwards rationalization. You likely are saying this to support your Sammy love. Because it's the same thing you say about him "beating Tampa". Matthews dominated that series, as did Rielly. The leafs offense won them a series vs Tampa. Sammy had a couple good games within it but also had a lot of bad moments and many more vs Florida. He's not the answer no matter how you rationalize it.

Did Francouz not outbattle EDM's goalies to help the Avs win. Keeping the puck out of the net more than the opponent is a factor in letting your team win. If he didnt EDM may have won some of those games lul.

Does not matter how many goals are let in if you outperform the guy in the other net then you helped your team win

If he was just continuing to let goals in then that series would have went more than 4 games thats for sure. But he was a factor in them winning whether people like it or not


Kuemper got hurt he stepped up and despite the issues Avs swept EDM


Again nothing to do with love of Sammy but highlighting teams can win with good to avg goaltending. Francouz games 1 and 4 allowed 5 and 6 and they still swept EDM, Heck he shut them out game 2

Sammy last year outdueled Vasilevskiy and helped won TOR its first series in the Matthews era. Something Anderson, Campell, etc couldnt do. If TOR plays smart and he makes all the stops he can they will go on a run. Just need the big boyz to wakeup and for defense to at least keep pace. BOS is a tough opponent but TOR was able to take a better version to 7 twice. As said before need to play better

Vegas was monumentally better defensively than TO was and they are worse this year than last. On top of that, Sammy's going to allow bad goals at the worst moments. This is a staple of his game, it's been there his entire career and this year it got so bad he couldn't stop a beach ball. He came back and let in a bunch of goals but not many really bad ones and then had a stretch where he looked good for 10 or so games and then finished the season by getting torched a bunch. You absolutely have to see this.

No one will win with Sammy as the starter, he isn't a starter. Woll can't possibly be worse than 4 wins in 16 starts. Give him experience, let him grow. He won the job before getting hurt and hasn't been given a chance to get back in a groove because they wanted to help broken Sammy stay confident. Just another boneheaded plan from Keefe.

The Avs completely destroyed the Oilers. They scored at will the whole series. It wasn't close. I could have won that series. A shovel leaning up against the crossbar would have out battled Skinner in that series.

Woll's struggled enough vs. BOS and last thing Shanahan or anyone needs is putting their job on the line to let the kid grow

As said before taking the goalie out after one bad game does not help anyone

What if Woll's bad does that help his confidence no. He lets in 3-5 goals games 2 -4 TOR gets swept then what?

We have a goalie whose confidence is shook and a team who now is left with more questions than answers

Skinner didnt even play that series lul

He wasnt even the backup.....

Koskinen was

But Mike Smith games 2 and 3 did put up good enough numbers for his team to win just didnt get goal support

Mike Smith got EDM to the third round that year to so got to give the old guy credit


And nah saying you or anyone of us could have won is silly if anything EDM might have swept COL lul. McDavid and Draisaitl are not one of the best NHL duo's for nothing

Cool, Koskinen was brutal as was Smith by then. It doesn't matter who was in net for Edmonton, they got destroyed. End of story. Propping up a backup who also allowed a tonne of goals as the guy who won the series is utter nonsense.