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We can no longer avoid LTIR

Créé par: NHLfan10506
Équipe: 2023-24 Devils du New Jersey
Date de création initiale: 24 janv. 2024
Publié: 24 janv. 2024
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Devils want to avoid using LTIR but with two more players now off the roster…we cannot ice a full team.

It stinks because we are replacing the injured players with ELCs who are earning bonus money that will hurt out cap next year.

Unless we make a move of someone to LTIR, I don’t think we would even be allowed to make a trade or even a waiver claim.

Wouldn’t surprised if we iced a team a man short of full roster in next game…and use all-star break to figure out next move.
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24 janv. à 15 h 3
#1
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If Hamilton is out until April, why isn't he on LTIR to begin with?
24 janv. à 15 h 4
#2
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
If Hamilton is out until April, why isn't he on LTIR to begin with?


We have a lot of bonuses from performing ELCs…probably $2.5-3m. We don’t want that to carryover to 2024-25.
24 janv. à 15 h 8
#3
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
We have a lot of bonuses from performing ELCs…probably $2.5-3m. We don’t want that to carryover to 2024-25.

But how does that affect LTIR?

I get the ELC part.
24 janv. à 15 h 14
#4
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Quoting: KINGS67
But how does that affect LTIR?

I get the ELC part.


Bonuses are typically covered using the residual cap space from the preceding season, and I think it's based on accrued cap space (the same system that makes the cap hit of rentals almost nonexistent come the deadline). If New Jersey puts any of their players on LTIR while they're up against the cap, they lose accrued cap space. If they can weather the storm, the less they'll face in bonus overages come next season.

Quoting: NHLfan10506
We have a lot of bonuses from performing ELCs…probably $2.5-3m. We don’t want that to carryover to 2024-25.


Even with the Devils freeing up $2.325M in cap space just from the Schneider and Kuokkanen buyouts expiring? And the anticipated $4.175M the salary cap is expected to go up by?
24 janv. à 15 h 18
#5
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Maybe it's time to look at a goalie move? Trading Vanecek for someone like Lankinen or Reimer might be an option.
24 janv. à 15 h 18
#6
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Bonuses are typically covered using the residual cap space from the preceding season, and I think it's based on accrued cap space (the same system that makes the cap hit of rentals almost nonexistent come the deadline). If New Jersey puts any of their players on LTIR while they're up against the cap, they lose accrued cap space. If they can weather the storm, the less they'll face in bonus overages come next season.



Even with the Devils freeing up $2.325M in cap space just from the Schneider and Kuokkanen buyouts expiring? And the anticipated $4.175M the salary cap is expected to go up by?


If we put Dougie on LTIR, we will no longer accrue cap space this year…so would mean $2m+ spills over to next year.
24 janv. à 15 h 22
#7
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Everything identified preseason in the "What could go wrong" section has now officially gone wrong. I'm just hoping they get to the finish line without any career ending injuries at this point & we start again next season. The Rock needs a Feng Shui consultant
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24 janv. à 15 h 23
#8
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
If we put Dougie on LTIR, we will no longer accrue cap space this year…so would mean $2m+ spills over to next year.


From my vantage point that seems like the last-chance texaco to have them spill over before things become problematic for the Devils.

$4M in cap space isn't a lot to work with, but if the bonuses do in fact spill over, Mercer and a goalie to tandem with Vanacek (unless y'all move him?) is about all that's on the NJD summer shopping list. Toffoli can be replaced almost at cost (or promote Haula?) and a bridge for Dawson won't be the end of days.
24 janv. à 15 h 23
#9
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Quoting: KINGS67
But how does that affect LTIR?

I get the ELC part.


Many Performance Bonuses are booked at end of season and if a team does not have the cap space, the net is moved to following years books.

If we use LTIR, we will no longer be able to accrue cap space to fit those bonuses into our 2023-24 cap…so most of it would carryover to 2024-25.

For instance, our ELCs right now have earned about $2.27m in bonuses. We have also accrued about $250k this year already. So we could cover $250k in 2023-24…the rest turns into the bonus overage that carries over.
24 janv. à 15 h 28
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
From my vantage point that seems like the last-chance texaco to have them spill over before things become problematic for the Devils.

$4M in cap space isn't a lot to work with, but if the bonuses do in fact spill over, Mercer and a goalie to tandem with Vanacek (unless y'all move him?) is about all that's on the NJD summer shopping list. Toffoli can be replaced almost at cost (or promote Haula?) and a bridge for Dawson won't be the end of days.


In an ideal world…we put Dougie on LTIR…accept the $2.25m carryover and try to earn in back by selling cap space this year….for space next year.

Team A dumps PLAYER 1 (overpaid pending UFA) on us and payment is PLAYER 2 (useful guy with two years remaining, retained by $2m or so).

That way we are cancelling out the overage (in a way).
24 janv. à 15 h 34
#11
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The best case is just to get to the all-star break and asses the team after the 10-day break.

More time for Hughes and Nosek to recover, more clarity on Foote and McLeod

How is our cap space looking after that (with the bonuses)?
24 janv. à 15 h 35
#12
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
In an ideal world…we put Dougie on LTIR…accept the $2.25m carryover and try to earn in back by selling cap space this year….for space next year.

Team A dumps PLAYER 1 (overpaid pending UFA) on us and payment is PLAYER 2 (useful guy with two years remaining, retained by $2m or so).

That way we are cancelling out the overage (in a way).


Would "punting" on this season - in essence selling on Miller and Toffoli as rentals - to acquire more assets be an option?

The two glaring weaknesses I figure the Devils want to address are going to be the goaltending and probably adding at least one more scoring forward. A first, a second, a pair of thirds, and Seamus Casey (maybe?) go a long way in getting one or two of those pressing issues solved and I can't see Nashville letting Saros go until the draft anyways.

This still requires limping by until the All Star break before committing to just being a wildcard team for the rest of the year.
24 janv. à 15 h 42
#13
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Time to take some overpriced guys on?

Brodie, Gryz, Mantha, Zucker, etc
24 janv. à 15 h 45
#14
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Would "punting" on this season - in essence selling on Miller and Toffoli as rentals - to acquire more assets be an option?

The two glaring weaknesses I figure the Devils want to address are going to be the goaltending and probably adding at least one more scoring forward. A first, a second, a pair of thirds, and Seamus Casey (maybe?) go a long way in getting one or two of those pressing issues solved and I can't see Nashville letting Saros go until the draft anyways.

This still requires limping by until the All Star break before committing to just being a wildcard team for the rest of the year.


They've got loads of scoring forwards, they just aren't scoring, due to either a horrid case of the yips or being on IR. Being tight against the cap doesn't help matters. Injuries, defensive deficiencies, and last but certainly largest goaltending absolutely going to hell in a hand basket has put the season on the brink of collapse.
24 janv. à 15 h 49
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Bonuses are typically covered using the residual cap space from the preceding season, and I think it's based on accrued cap space (the same system that makes the cap hit of rentals almost nonexistent come the deadline). If New Jersey puts any of their players on LTIR while they're up against the cap, they lose accrued cap space. If they can weather the storm, the less they'll face in bonus overages come next season.



Even with the Devils freeing up $2.325M in cap space just from the Schneider and Kuokkanen buyouts expiring? And the anticipated $4.175M the salary cap is expected to go up by?


Oh gotcha. Thanks.
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24 janv. à 15 h 50
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Would "punting" on this season - in essence selling on Miller and Toffoli as rentals - to acquire more assets be an option?

The two glaring weaknesses I figure the Devils want to address are going to be the goaltending and probably adding at least one more scoring forward. A first, a second, a pair of thirds, and Seamus Casey (maybe?) go a long way in getting one or two of those pressing issues solved and I can't see Nashville letting Saros go until the draft anyways.

This still requires limping by until the All Star break before committing to just being a wildcard team for the rest of the year.


If healthy, we should have no problem scoring goals. We have a young (and injury depleted) blueline and some real long term questions in net.

So…
Short-term, need a dman
Long-term, need a goalie
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24 janv. à 15 h 51
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Quoting: GiggywithGibby
They've got loads of scoring forwards, they just aren't scoring, due to either a horrid case of the yips or being on IR.


In the case I presented, Toffoli would likely be moved and a top-nine forward Curtis Lazar should not be. I don't see Nosek being that element either. McLeod is in limbo for the time being and should be disregarded until there's clarity regarding his absence.

Bratt, Haula, Hischer, Holtz, Hughes, Meier, Mercer, and Palat make up what should be a large majority of a very good top-nine unit. Replacing Toffoli with something equally as productive is where my focus went. Ideally a piece with term? Even more ideally something in the age range of their core in order to sustain the club once the wheels fall off of Palat.
24 janv. à 15 h 53
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Quoting: dgibb10
Time to take some overpriced guys on?

Brodie, Gryz, Mantha, Zucker, etc


I doubt we will take straight dumps…never did when we stunk, cannot imagine we would now.

But if we can get creative and earn some $$ back…maybe there is a good plan out there.
24 janv. à 15 h 58
#19
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
In the case I presented, Toffoli would likely be moved and a top-nine forward Curtis Lazar should not be. I don't see Nosek being that element either. McLeod is in limbo for the time being and should be disregarded until there's clarity regarding his absence.

Bratt, Haula, Hischer, Holtz, Hughes, Meier, Mercer, and Palat make up what should be a large majority of a very good top-nine unit. Replacing Toffoli with something equally as productive is where my focus went. Ideally a piece with term? Even more ideally something in the age range of their core in order to sustain the club once the wheels fall off of Palat.


If there were say a Toffoli2 who have two more years on his deal and his team had another pending UFA they wanted to dump on us…

We would send Toffoli1 at 50% ($2m x 1) for Toffoli2 at 50% ($2m x 2) and whatever 2023-24 salary. That would pay for the 2024-25 carryover (indirectly).
24 janv. à 16 h 1
#20
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I doubt we will take straight dumps…never did when we stunk, cannot imagine we would now.

But if we can get creative and earn some $$ back…maybe there is a good plan out there.


I don’t consider those guys pure cap dumps. I think they’re guys that are overpaid but still useful hockey players who can help us this year while ensuring we preserve our trade capital
24 janv. à 16 h 27
#21
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Quoting: dgibb10
I don’t consider those guys pure cap dumps. I think they’re guys that are overpaid but still useful hockey players who can help us this year while ensuring we preserve our trade capital


Yes. I was responding to “take overprice guys on”….sounded like “take cap dumps”
24 janv. à 16 h 31
#22
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Yes. I was responding to “take overprice guys on”….sounded like “take cap dumps”


Nah very different. I'm not suggesting going after guys like Tyler Myers or Jakob Silferberg.

Useful guys who have high 1 year cap hits that make them cheap/free to acquire but can help us make the playoffs this year
24 janv. à 16 h 34
#23
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Quoting: dgibb10
Nah very different. I'm not suggesting going after guys like Tyler Myers or Jakob Silferberg.

Useful guys who have high 1 year cap hits that make them cheap/free to acquire but can help us make the playoffs this year


Ideally combined with 2-year player with retention …but yeah, I imagine it’s got to be more of an option now.
 
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