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Redoing Things in the 2022 Offseason

Créé par: matt59
Équipe: 2023-24 Blue Jackets de Columbus
Date de création initiale: 24 déc. 2023
Publié: 25 déc. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
In my opinion, 2022 was the year and offseason this franchise jumped the shark. Coming off a season where the franchise exceeded expectations, we chose to be big spenders on long term contracts in free agency, and overspent on the wrong players in my mind. Sure Gaudreau and Laine are skilled, but their play styles aren't exactly complimentary of each other. One is a smaller and faster player but he's a puck carrier and playmaker, trying to get the puck over to a bigger slower goal scorer who's not a elite puck carrier. It becomes easier to defend in my mind, as the puck carrier in Gaudreau is fairly easy to separate from the puck and even if he gets the puck over to Laine, he's not a guy who can blow by everyone and easily get into open space to score other than his one time spot. Additionally, on the power play Laine's spot of most success in the left circle which is also where Gaudreau had the most success on the PP in Calgary. In hindsight expecting a seamless transition of moving either into a spot that is less comfortable on the power play to benefit the other was a flawed concept.

For the record, Jakub Voracek was the *perfect* complimentary linemate and power play partner in crime for Laine and unfortunately concussions ended his career. They were dynamite together.

Laine and Gaudreau also are not guys who on the same team are foundations of a stanley cup winning core to me. Neither are in the class of an Ovechkin/Kucherov/Kane who are the few wingers in modern NHL history to be expensive parts of a cup winning core, and to have two expensive wingers who aren't a born fit for each other without an elite center at the time is disaster waiting to happen.

So that's the logic behind this roster. Ottawa desperately wanted a sniper in the 2022 offseason. Laine gets sent to Ottawa coming off a solid season in columbus (56 pts in 56 games in 21-22), for a lesser price than Ottawa paid for Debrincat who flamed out as a Senator. As a result of that deal, Columbus picks at 7 and 39, drafting Matt Savoie as a center and Tristan Luneau as an additional defensive piece to compliment the right side.

Johnny Gaudreau isn't signed in this alternative world, and Oliver Bjorkstrand remains a Blue Jacket.

Of course, in this alternate universe I made the bold assumption that Adam Fantilli is still a Blue jacket and that last season pans out the same way across the league. It's a hypothetical scenario anyway so deal with it.

In this universe I'd also like to think Mike Babcock isn't hired as HC at all, and that whole crap show is avoided entirely. Pazzy wouldn't have been my first choice hire either, imo it would've been nice to get a external candidate who is a capable coach. I cannot understand this org's fascination with internal hires despite the fact they never perform to a high standard. (Todd Richards, Brad Larsen, Pascal Vincent, etc.). There were absolutely capable external candidates available who were passed over for whatever reason.

I also opted to not sign severson since an 8 year deal for an average defenseman at best is a terrible, horrible idea. Again, stanley cups aren't won by making splashy free agents the centerpieces of your "core".

*Also, Goalie and defense are positions of need that I think would need to be addressed in this alternate universe, but I think it would be more beneficial to do so by trade for big pieces rather than the free agent route. Bottom 6 and bottom pair players I'd have no issue pursing in FA as long as the term isnt insane
Transactions
1.
CBJ
    Trade would’ve been with Ottawa for picks 7 and 39 at 2022 draft. The Debrincat deal, but without Ottawa giving up the 3rd as well. In this universe i draft Matthew Savoie at 7 and Tristan Luneau at 39
    2.
    CBJ
    1. Savoie, Matthew
    Détails additionnels:
    From pick 7 in Laine deal
    BUF
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    CBJ
    1. Luneau, Tristan
    Détails additionnels:
    Pick 39 in the Laine deal
    ANA
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    CBJ
      Waiver claim
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      CGY
      1. Gaudreau, Johnny
      Détails additionnels:
      Not signed in FA, Bjorkstrand kept as a jacket
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      1. Bjorkstrand, Oliver
      Détails additionnels:
      In this world, Bjorky stays a jacket
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      CHI
      1. Severson, Damon
      Détails additionnels:
      not signed in 2023 offseason
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      25 déc. 2023 à 1 h 16
      #1
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      Lol
      gretzkyghosts a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 1 h 19
      #2
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      Quoting: AntiAnalytics
      If u think the Sabres are trading Savoie for Laine,
      you’re outta your mind sir


      That's not the trade smh. It's a statement of in hindsight that at the 2022 draft, Ottawa wanted a scoring winger. They dealt picks 7 and 39 as well as a third to CHI for Debrincat who flamed out in Ottawa. Hypothetically, Ottawa traded Laine to Columbus for just 7 and 39, and then at 7, I would've taken Savoie given that we took Jiricek at 6 and already had a slew of LD's in the pipeline.
      Mikael_Smith a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 1 h 22
      #3
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      Modifié 25 déc. 2023 à 5 h 16
      Quoting: matt59
      That's not the trade smh. It's a statement of in hindsight that at the 2022 draft, Ottawa wanted a scoring winger. They dealt picks 7 and 39 as well as a third to CHI for Debrincat who flamed out in Ottawa. Hypothetically, Ottawa traded Laine to Columbus for just 7 and 39, and then at 7, I would've taken Savoie given that we took Jiricek at 6 and already had a slew of LD's in the pipeline.


      Yeah, i didn’t read your lengthy fantasy
      Every team could do the revisionist history thing
      Just not for me, but have at it
      25 déc. 2023 à 1 h 59
      #4
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      Modifié 25 déc. 2023 à 10 h 23
      Quoting: AntiAnalytics
      Yeah, i didn’t wast my time reading your lengthy fantasy
      Every team could do the revisionist history thing
      Just not for me, but have at it


      He’s a jackets fan, posting about the jackets and how they made terrible signings and trades when they should have been building for the future. He just shows what he would have done, which is similar to what I feel like most gms would have done if placed in the same position. The guy who made this is legitimately right, and the jackets would be better off like this than they would be with Laine and Gaudreau.
      What are you mad about here?
      matt59 a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 2 h 8
      #5
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      Quoting: Mikael_Smith
      He’s a jackets fan, posting about the jackets and how they made terrible signings and trades when they should have been building for the future. He just shows what he would have done, which is similar to what I feel like most gms would have done if placed in the same position. The guy who made this is legitimately right, and the jackets would be better off like this than they would be with Laine and Gaudreau.
      What are you made about here?


      I’m not mad about anything
      Literally just said that “it’s not for me”
      gretzkyghosts a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 4 h 39
      #6
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      Quoting: AntiAnalytics
      I’m not mad about anything
      Literally just said that “it’s not for me”


      Personally, I wouldn't click and comment on the post titled "Redoing Things In The 2022 Offseason" if revisionist history wasn't my thing, but you do you.
      25 déc. 2023 à 4 h 54
      #7
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      Like this a lot. Personally, I'd still want to do the Gaudreau signing IF Gudbranson isn't a package deal. I'm still not clear on that whole dynamic and whether it would've come up or not without them signing Gudbranson. Having an elite player, even if he's not that no. 1 guy on a cup quality guy still provides a lot of value and with Zach being the only large contract here, they've got plenty of room to make it work and money wouldn't even be a concern for another 3 years, if that. Top line looks a lot better and I think would help Fantilli's growth a lot more with Gaudreau there and Jenner bumped down.

      Since you mentioned coaching, I know they hired Larson the prior season, but if they'd gone internal I would've much rather had Shaw than Larson. If anyone already in the org deserved a chance, I think it was him. I would've also went balls to the walls for Laviolette this offseason. I think he would've been he perfect guy, though I think it's a hard sell to convince him to not take the NYR job he'd presumably still be offered. I would've gone after him the second Washington let him go though and maybe been able to grab him quickly.

      Lastly, since you mentioned Severson and the HC from this offseason, I'd add that I also wouldn't make the Provorov deal. I think he's a good fit in terms of short term 2 year player for that 2LD spot as prospects develop (though Meteychuk seems to basically be ready now, who woulda though lol). I was not cool with giving up the 1st for him though. If Philly was asking for that LA pick, I would've just moved on and looked for a FA or something to fill that spot on a 2-3 year deal, even if it was a worse option. Saw a lot of arguments this offseason that it didn't matter if they overpaid for Provorov cause the pick was "basically free" from the Korpi/Gavrikov deal, but I think that mindset is awful. At the point you made that trade and got the pick, it's not free. Good job getting a 1st for 2 expiring deals, but now that you have it it's an asset you should value, not throw away on an overpay you could've just solved in FA cause you think you're playing with house money or whatever. And worst case, I'd play Blankenburg (who should be in the lineup imo) there, or Bean/Boqvist on the left side short term.
      matt59 a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 5 h 2
      #8
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      Quoting: Trevor31lv
      Personally, I wouldn't click and comment on the post titled "Redoing Things In The 2022 Offseason" if revisionist history wasn't my thing, but you do you.


      I didn’t look at the title
      Saw the Sabres logo to the right & clicked to see what the proposed trade was
      U guys are awfully sensitive….
      gretzkyghosts a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 5 h 8
      #9
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      Quoting: AntiAnalytics
      I didn’t look at the title
      Saw the Sabres logo to the right & clicked to see what the proposed trade was
      U guys are awfully sensitive….


      Takes an awful lot of guts to be a jerk when you're blatantly lazy and wrong lol. Odd you're getting quite defensive rather than just apologizing to OP and moving on with your day.
      25 déc. 2023 à 5 h 14
      #10
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      Quoting: Beargold
      Takes an awful lot of guts to be a jerk when you're blatantly lazy and wrong lol. Odd you're getting quite defensive rather than just apologizing to OP and moving on with your day.


      Not being a jerk AT ALL
      Already explained myself to the OP, & he didn’t seem to have a problem with me after that
      And if YOU do, then that’s a YOU problem
      Either way, idc….
      gretzkyghosts a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 5 h 20
      #11
      18 lotteries, 0 wins
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      Or they could've had Johnny and just actually valued Bjorky and paid a smidgen to dump Nyquist instead huff huff but Jarmo is ignorant to dump trades and we lost a younger, better producer, better contract, kind hearted org vet and ended up with neither now.

      Yes Severson deal bad. Don't mind him as depth D, but too much term and money. Should've signed like a 5x5
      25 déc. 2023 à 9 h 27
      #12
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      Quoting: Trevor31lv
      Like this a lot. Personally, I'd still want to do the Gaudreau signing IF Gudbranson isn't a package deal. I'm still not clear on that whole dynamic and whether it would've come up or not without them signing Gudbranson. Having an elite player, even if he's not that no. 1 guy on a cup quality guy still provides a lot of value and with Zach being the only large contract here, they've got plenty of room to make it work and money wouldn't even be a concern for another 3 years, if that. Top line looks a lot better and I think would help Fantilli's growth a lot more with Gaudreau there and Jenner bumped down.

      Since you mentioned coaching, I know they hired Larson the prior season, but if they'd gone internal I would've much rather had Shaw than Larson. If anyone already in the org deserved a chance, I think it was him. I would've also went balls to the walls for Laviolette this offseason. I think he would've been he perfect guy, though I think it's a hard sell to convince him to not take the NYR job he'd presumably still be offered. I would've gone after him the second Washington let him go though and maybe been able to grab him quickly.

      Lastly, since you mentioned Severson and the HC from this offseason, I'd add that I also wouldn't make the Provorov deal. I think he's a good fit in terms of short term 2 year player for that 2LD spot as prospects develop (though Meteychuk seems to basically be ready now, who woulda though lol). I was not cool with giving up the 1st for him though. If Philly was asking for that LA pick, I would've just moved on and looked for a FA or something to fill that spot on a 2-3 year deal, even if it was a worse option. Saw a lot of arguments this offseason that it didn't matter if they overpaid for Provorov cause the pick was "basically free" from the Korpi/Gavrikov deal, but I think that mindset is awful. At the point you made that trade and got the pick, it's not free. Good job getting a 1st for 2 expiring deals, but now that you have it it's an asset you should value, not throw away on an overpay you could've just solved in FA cause you think you're playing with house money or whatever. And worst case, I'd play Blankenburg (who should be in the lineup imo) there, or Bean/Boqvist on the left side short term.


      I thought about leaving Gaudreau in there and then keeping Bjorkstrand with Laine being the cap sacrifice, but i do have some long term concerns on how Johnnys contract is going to age. And given our window to win really isn’t going to be until 2025-26 with how the roster is constructed, that’s another 2 years of aging on Johnny before we are truly ready to win.

      I agree 100% about Shaw. I was legitimately pissed that Shaw was brushed to the side while Larsen (notable power play struggle coach) was heralded as Torts’ prodigy by management lol. Extremely ironic that Jarmo and JD were adamant that he’d uphold “the standard” set by Torts only to fire him 2 seasons later for “letting the standard slip”. Also believe that Laviolette would’ve been the perfect hire as a little bit of a hardass but one who knows how to coach a winner and get the most out of players. Agreed that the odds are low he would’ve wanted to coach here over NYR but we’ll never actually know whether that’s true or not

      I kinda agree/disagree on Provorov. Totally understand from the asset management perspective that it’s not the most ideal expenditure but realistically I’m not sure if we would’ve been able to land one of the left shot UFA d men. To me we’re one of Orlov/Graves really gonna sign in Columbus over Pittsburgh or Carolina? Additionally getting a Russian who’s a good player in Provorov to help the young Russian players feel more included i think has been very beneficial for them. Also has paired well with Jiricek (when he isn’t benched 🙄). I do think I’d be a little more pressed if that pick was even 2-3 spots higher bc it would opened the door to drafting a guy like Oliver Moore. But end of the day, it’s one of the lesser issues to me compared to the litany of poor moves we’ve made the last 2 years.

      Merry Christmas as well!
      Trevor31lv a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 9 h 33
      #13
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      Quoting: AndrewPawlack
      Or they could've had Johnny and just actually valued Bjorky and paid a smidgen to dump Nyquist instead huff huff but Jarmo is ignorant to dump trades and we lost a younger, better producer, better contract, kind hearted org vet and ended up with neither now.

      Yes Severson deal bad. Don't mind him as depth D, but too much term and money. Should've signed like a 5x5


      Hell in this scenario we would’ve been able to keep Gus and Bjorkstrand since Laine would’ve been out the door. Was extremely disappointed they chose to dump Bjorkstrand the way they did, for a guy who wanted to be there and was a great player here they did him very dirty, while on his honeymoon smh.

      Yeah at 5x5 or so i wouldn’t have had an issue with Severson. But 6.25x8 is just bananas for a guy who’s prone to making “the big mistake” at the worst possible time 🤦‍♂️
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      25 déc. 2023 à 12 h 48
      #14
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      Quoting: Trevor31lv
      I also wouldn't make the Provorov deal. I think he's a good fit in terms of short term 2 year player for that 2LD spot as prospects develop (though Meteychuk seems to basically be ready now, who woulda though lol). I was not cool with giving up the 1st for him though.....Saw a lot of arguments this offseason that it didn't matter if they overpaid for Provorov cause the pick was "basically free" from the Korpi/Gavrikov deal, but I think that mindset is awful.


      I don't mind the Provorov deal, in hindsight. It's done 3 important things: 1) shielded players like Mateychuk and Svozil so they don't have to take on the 2LD role now, 2) Provorov's season has definitely bumped up his value a little, and 3) related to 2, gives us the ability to trade him down the line when we have a better idea which pieces are core and which holes need to actually be filled, and target those needs with either the picks or players we get back.

      The overarching complaint for me is the FO:

      "In this universe I'd also like to think Mike Babcock isn't hired as HC at all, and that whole crap show is avoided entirely. Pazzy wouldn't have been my first choice hire either, imo it would've been nice to get a external candidate who is a capable coach. I cannot understand this org's fascination with internal hires despite the fact they never perform to a high standard. (Todd Richards, Brad Larsen, Pascal Vincent, etc.). There were absolutely capable external candidates available who were passed over for whatever reason."

      Paz is a fine coach, and I like what he's done this year. The last two seasons under Larsen completely ruined both the culture and the development trajectory of some key players that are just now getting back on track, IMO. Ownership should have let Jarmo make the choice and come to them before hiring, and when he said his choice was Larsen, fired him on the spot. They certainly should have fired him on the spot for hiring Babcock in the first place. The boys club/internal hire issues have plagued this franchise for years, and if anything needs a shakeup, it's the FO and arguably the ownership that's allowed a culture of failure to fester.

      I don't mind the team on the ice, I think that's the result of a mostly fine or obvious moves that have set us up nicely for future success. But I don't trust this management crew to get us over the hump, and that's the first change that needs to happen.


      As for the players: Gaudreau is still important because it showed the rest of the league that big-name free agents view Columbus as a legit spot. Severson is expensive but should be fine. Gudbranson has been fine this year, but I wouldn't take him over Bjorky, which was the biggest mistake of the bunch. Undo everything you've done here, and ice the roster as you have it, and this team is still bottom-5 in the league.
      Trevor31lv a aimé ceci.
      25 déc. 2023 à 14 h 5
      #15
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      Quoting: CaseyFlyman
      I don't mind the Provorov deal, in hindsight. It's done 3 important things: 1) shielded players like Mateychuk and Svozil so they don't have to take on the 2LD role now, 2) Provorov's season has definitely bumped up his value a little, and 3) related to 2, gives us the ability to trade him down the line when we have a better idea which pieces are core and which holes need to actually be filled, and target those needs with either the picks or players we get back.

      The overarching complaint for me is the FO:

      "In this universe I'd also like to think Mike Babcock isn't hired as HC at all, and that whole crap show is avoided entirely. Pazzy wouldn't have been my first choice hire either, imo it would've been nice to get a external candidate who is a capable coach. I cannot understand this org's fascination with internal hires despite the fact they never perform to a high standard. (Todd Richards, Brad Larsen, Pascal Vincent, etc.). There were absolutely capable external candidates available who were passed over for whatever reason."

      Paz is a fine coach, and I like what he's done this year. The last two seasons under Larsen completely ruined both the culture and the development trajectory of some key players that are just now getting back on track, IMO. Ownership should have let Jarmo make the choice and come to them before hiring, and when he said his choice was Larsen, fired him on the spot. They certainly should have fired him on the spot for hiring Babcock in the first place. The boys club/internal hire issues have plagued this franchise for years, and if anything needs a shakeup, it's the FO and arguably the ownership that's allowed a culture of failure to fester.

      I don't mind the team on the ice, I think that's the result of a mostly fine or obvious moves that have set us up nicely for future success. But I don't trust this management crew to get us over the hump, and that's the first change that needs to happen.


      As for the players: Gaudreau is still important because it showed the rest of the league that big-name free agents view Columbus as a legit spot. Severson is expensive but should be fine. Gudbranson has been fine this year, but I wouldn't take him over Bjorky, which was the biggest mistake of the bunch. Undo everything you've done here, and ice the roster as you have it, and this team is still bottom-5 in the league.

      Agreed with a good bit of what you’re saying here. The FO has completely flopped the last two years in a variety of ways from coaching hires to PR and accountability within the org. And part of that stems from ownership. I don’t expect or want a meddlesome ownership group, but being completely hands off and only friends of the PHOP and GM is not a winning relationship. Like you said, if they had any sense about themselves, the Larsen and Babcock hirings wouldn’t/shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

      I do think as a whole the team on ice has been poorly constructed outside of draft picks. To me it’s just kinda a collection of what should be talented or valuable pieces that don’t seem to fit great. And that’s on management for constructing a group that isn’t getting positive results.

      I’m iffy on Pazzy as a whole. I don’t mind the way he handled the Laine/Gaudreau benchings (they were playing terrible and a message needed to be sent) and do appreciate that he tries to hold players accountable more than Larsen did. However I’m really not sure why Jiricek has been getting jerked around from press box to third pair to first pair. I haven’t been able to watch all of this years games but he was rolling early in the season while paired with Provy and then got scratched after making the key play to keep a puck in the zone, leading to our ONLY GOAL against Washington. Then once brought back in, he’s paired with bean instead of Provorov who he was clearly more comfortable with. Imo tactically i think there’s lots of room for improvement too, with leads we still get to “prevent defensey”. It does seem like they have tried to become a more aggressive defensive team which is an improvement over the very stagnant style that was played earlier this year.
      CaseyFlyman a aimé ceci.
       
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