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Since everyone is trading with SJS - lets clear the air

Créé par: yikes
Équipe: 2023-24 Sharks de San Jose
Date de création initiale: 6 déc. 2023
Publié: 7 déc. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Discuss w/ me below
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1.
SJS
    Absolutely bottom of the barrel, anything goes - values are nothing or negative.
    2.
    SJS
      Low value - trades are not going to worth writing home about for either team probably
      3.
      SJS
        There’s a potential for overpay - guys may be worth it and it’s fair, but guys also may have a chance at slightly getting more than perceived. Realistically going to be 4th (Zadina/ MacDonald) plus prospect - a 2nd (Barabanov) in value
        4.
        SJS
          Special Mentions

          These 5 guys vary in value and skill/ potentials.
          However each have quirks that make their values have more layers then non fans would perceive.

          I’ll start with the most important to least.

          1. Duclair
          Watch any Sharks internal or external content. He’s quickly become a special character in the team. He’s quoted as calling Sharks key future pieces in Eklund, Zetterlund, and Bordeleau as “his sons/ my sons”. He’s always been a league wide liked player and is a personality. Quite literally each week since G1, his values changed. Right now he seems like a special person to the locker room and the interviews/ reports suggest it too.


          You don’t create a void/ problem in your locker room for no reason. I don’t see Duclair being traded based on my own opinion from research/ reading (videos, interviews, post games, articles, etc) - and I predict if he will resign for like 3-4m x 3-5 years, he’ll stay in Teal. If he voices he wants to go to a contender at TDL, then things change. But right now his value is going to require and overpay. I would say if there’s a notion of resigning with what I outlined, Grier only accepts a stupid offer (1st +++)

          2. Granlund and Strum
          SJS can’t retain on Granlund or anyone for 2 years or more unless it’s Couture in the offseason. Granlunds played amazing but his AAV is high and the costs just aren’t going to balance for either side.

          Strum is such a likeable player and a guy I think every team wants in their room and on the 4th line. He’s more valuable to any team that owns him than for a 4th + in value. He would also require a higher offer than “commonly perceived”. Would you rather a project prospect and a 4th or Strum for 2 years? Almost always it’s Strum. There’s too much content (internal/ external and off ice/ on ice) to suggest there’s an upside to trading him unless you’re getting something too good to be true.

          3rd. Burroughs
          Plain and simple I think Grier and the coaching staff loves him. Probably would again just be an ask that’s scoffed at by GMs.

          4. Kahkonen
          I’m unclear as to what SJS wants to do with him. I think there’s some credibility to some of the more knowledgeable Sharks coverage that they may keep both guys and run it back next. But I think with the right offer they’d move Kaapo - buts he’s played great so I wish him the best either here or in another uni.
          5.
          SJS
            Costing over a first - all actual insiders, best writers/ reports I’ve seen suggest the only way Grier moves Ferraro is for a pricey return. A 2nd + an okay prospect isn’t pricey.

            A first/ high prospect + a prospect/ conditional decent pick is expensive and that’s what I’d expect for Grier to move his 20-27min minute eater at a low AAV.

            Doesn’t mean it’s ever going to happen - but there’s no reason to trade Ferraro for a 26th-50th overall pick + a toss in. Mario easily could play 250-500 more quality games of hockey; it’s just how the cards play out. And you don’t move that piece for fun.
            6.
            SJS
              Here’s all I need to say regarding my opinion on Blackwood.

              - 26
              - Dirt Cheap AAV
              - Former “Elite Potential/ Calder guy”
              - Playing phenomenal on a bottom team
              - What’s the downside in keeping ?

              If San Jose keeps Blackwood and he’s plays great again next year, he’s probably going to want to stay in SJS with the newfound success or try and help a cup contender. Either way SJS either resigns him 3-5 years which doesn’t affect them financially assuming his AAV is fair. And helps them in hundreds of ways. Or they trade him - with 2 years of consistent good play at 2025 TDL, retained for a boatload.

              So either it’s you pay a boatload now or SJS can just ride the way. No reason to get hot and bothered for a 2nd for Blackwood when he’s literally played out of his mind.
              7.
              8.
              SJS
                Guys who I think the Sharks would rather wait and see what they have
                9.
                SJS
                  Example :

                  Barabanov won’t be guaranteed to be traded for a 2nd, but it’s possible.

                  There is no chance Benning is traded for a 2nd.

                  It’s unrealistic to trade for Duclair - if your offer is around a 3rd. It’s also unrealistic to think the Sharks will get a 2nd for Burroughs but they won’t trade him for a 5th.
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                  7 déc. 2023 à 11 h 46
                  #1
                  FKA Bigtittielarper
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                  Doubt the leafs have any interest in any of those guys
                  7 déc. 2023 à 11 h 46
                  #2
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                  I would love Sturm on the Oilers, but his contract is too much for a fourth line center. What would his cost be, with retained salary?
                  7 déc. 2023 à 11 h 49
                  #3
                  Stovetop
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                  Quoting: SomeonesOffended
                  Doubt the leafs have any interest in any of those guys


                  It wasn't a proposed trade, it was just picking a team at random to show what category those guys fall under
                  SomeonesOffended, yikes, Terrifiedofeveryone and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 11 h 51
                  #4
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                  EklundCelebriniSmith
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                  Quoting: Fail4Nail
                  I would love Sturm on the Oilers, but his contract is too much for a fourth line center. What would his cost be, with retained salary?


                  I think a team like MIN or ARI would charge around a 4th-5th to help. SJS can’t afford to use their final slot on Strum.

                  It would probably be a 3rd or 4th / prospect + something for SJ and a late pick for 2m retained (this year 1 and next year 1). Neither MIN or ARI seem inclined to need every retention spot so in total value, EDM probably loses under a 2nd in total value.

                  Ex:

                  Lavoie
                  4th
                  5th

                  Just chop it up in many different ways but as I said SJS probably asks something high for Strum - he’s shown he’s an important role player/ locker room leader for this young team who needs consistency in their voices and beside them.
                  Fail4Nail a aimé ceci.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 12 h 38
                  #5
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                  My five cents from 3000 miles away

                  1. I would include Bystedt in the untouchables

                  2. I think Zetterlund could fetch healthy sum at deadline. A 20-goal tank at $1.4m x 2 years…might not get Hagel price but maybe close.

                  3. Sharks fans would know more than I would…but hard to imagine there is much of a market for Zadina at this point. Every team has their own “projects” but it only works if they come for free. I could see him as a tack-on to another deal…but not much more.

                  4. Okhotiuk may be useful piece at deadline too…big hitting 6/7 dman at $789,167…could see teams interested there. He is an RFA this summer without Arb rights, so whoever gets him will have him cheaply for one more year at least (at around $813k).

                  5. The issue with Labanc, Simek, Duclair and Granlund is (a) San Jose has only one retention spot remaining and (b) all have higher actual salary than cap hit (so getting third party to retain may cost more) and (c) Sharks can’t take too many contracts back since they are at 49 (and may want to keep one open for Will Smith at end of NCAA season). So moving them will take some creativity.
                  Taz a aimé ceci.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 12 h 52
                  #6
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                  great analysis. With that being said I hope they keep duclair and I literally have no idea how their line up will look next season hahaha
                  7 déc. 2023 à 13 h 1
                  #7
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                  EklundCelebriniSmith
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                  Quoting: NHLfan10506
                  My five cents from 3000 miles away

                  1. I would include Bystedt in the untouchables

                  2. I think Zetterlund could fetch healthy sum at deadline. A 20-goal tank at $1.4m x 2 years…might not get Hagel price but maybe close.

                  3. Sharks fans would know more than I would…but hard to imagine there is much of a market for Zadina at this point. Every team has their own “projects” but it only works if they come for free. I could see him as a tack-on to another deal…but not much more.

                  4. Okhotiuk may be useful piece at deadline too…big hitting 6/7 dman at $789,167…could see teams interested there. He is an RFA this summer without Arb rights, so whoever gets him will have him cheaply for one more year at least (at around $813k).

                  5. The issue with Labanc, Simek, Duclair and Granlund is (a) San Jose has only one retention spot remaining and (b) all have higher actual salary than cap hit (so getting third party to retain may cost more) and (c) Sharks can’t take too many contracts back since they are at 49 (and may want to keep one open for Will Smith at end of NCAA season). So moving them will take some creativity.


                  1. Fair - you’re more correct then I

                  2. Yeha but the Sharks quite literally have zero RW in the pipes other than Cardwell and Coe - who are still kinda Projects, and Haulttenen who’s not close to the NHL for a couple season (but has high potential). Zetterlund is only 24 and so he fits really any timeline. Doesn’t make sense to trade him - unless again you’re getting a stupid offer. But he’s played very well and does alt more than just produce points - I don’t see much point in trading him.

                  3. Zadina like I said is a 4th at best, I agree it’s kinda a wash/ over.

                  4. Basically a repeat of Zetterlund. Doesn’t make sense if all he’s done is improve and could be a safe 3rd pair guy/ quality second pair guy if things go well for him, another future piece I don’t see much point in trading unless it’s for a ransom.

                  5. Oh they’re just there if anyone wants them but Granlund and Duclair seem to be more valuable in our room than as trades. And but I don’t consider Labanc, Simek, Vlasic, Lindblom as assets.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 13 h 35
                  #8
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                  Quoting: yikes
                  2. Yeha but the Sharks quite literally have zero RW in the pipes other than Cardwell and Coe - who are still kinda Projects, and Haulttenen who’s not close to the NHL for a couple season (but has high potential). Zetterlund is only 24 and so he fits really any timeline. Doesn’t make sense to trade him - unless again you’re getting a stupid offer. But he’s played very well and does alt more than just produce points - I don’t see much point in trading him.


                  My point was I could see a team paying above market for guy like Zetterlund…(not sure what entails “stupid” return).

                  Smith, Lund, Young are all righties too if worried about R/L balance. Not all will be centers as long as Hertl and Couture, Bystedt are around.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 13 h 49
                  #9
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                  EklundCelebriniSmith
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                  Quoting: NHLfan10506
                  My point was I could see a team paying above market for guy like Zetterlund…(not sure what entails “stupid” return).

                  Smith, Lund, Young are all righties too if worried about R/L balance. Not all will be centers as long as Hertl and Couture, Bystedt are around.


                  What would we consider above market?
                  7 déc. 2023 à 14 h 1
                  #10
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                  Quoting: NHLfan10506
                  My five cents from 3000 miles away

                  1. I would include Bystedt in the untouchables

                  2. I think Zetterlund could fetch healthy sum at deadline. A 20-goal tank at $1.4m x 2 years…might not get Hagel price but maybe close.

                  3. Sharks fans would know more than I would…but hard to imagine there is much of a market for Zadina at this point. Every team has their own “projects” but it only works if they come for free. I could see him as a tack-on to another deal…but not much more.

                  4. Okhotiuk may be useful piece at deadline too…big hitting 6/7 dman at $789,167…could see teams interested there. He is an RFA this summer without Arb rights, so whoever gets him will have him cheaply for one more year at least (at around $813k).

                  5. The issue with Labanc, Simek, Duclair and Granlund is (a) San Jose has only one retention spot remaining and (b) all have higher actual salary than cap hit (so getting third party to retain may cost more) and (c) Sharks can’t take too many contracts back since they are at 49 (and may want to keep one open for Will Smith at end of NCAA season). So moving them will take some creativity.



                  I agree w/ Bystedt, as compared to Bords, I see Bystedt more in the Hertl PF mold. I also think Bords could make it at LW, he has shown scoring ability w/ Cuda.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 14 h 37
                  #11
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                  Quoting: Burnzie8_88_4Cup
                  I agree w/ Bystedt, as compared to Bords, I see Bystedt more in the Hertl PF mold. I also think Bords could make it at LW, he has shown scoring ability w/ Cuda.


                  Thing with Bordeleau though....he is unusually gifted at faceoffs for his age. So if 'playing center' is defined by taking draws...maybe he sticks in middle.

                  Could also be a player like Haula...who takes draws, then plays wing.
                  yikes et Burnzie8_88_4Cup a aimé ceci.
                  7 déc. 2023 à 14 h 49
                  #12
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                  Quoting: yikes
                  What would we consider above market?


                  "Stupid" Return........Hagel return (1st, 1st, two meh prospects)
                  Above Market...........Newhook return (1st, 2nd)
                  Market........................McBain return (2nd)
                  Below Market...........Studnicka return (two meh prospects)
                  7 déc. 2023 à 15 h 12
                  #13
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                  EklundCelebriniSmith
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                  Quoting: NHLfan10506
                  "Stupid" Return........Hagel return (1st, 1st, two meh prospects)
                  Above Market...........Newhook return (1st, 2nd)
                  Market........................McBain return (2nd)
                  Below Market...........Studnicka return (two meh prospects)


                  I forgot about the Hagel trade lol.

                  2 Protected firsts
                  For Hagel

                  4th + 4th for two project prospects.

                  I guess if a team did offer 2 firsts for Zetterlund it’d be hard to say no (maybe even use one of the for a trade up at the draft).
                   
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