Should be able to get more for him I would think

I agree with that but he hasn't been playing well and has a long term deal with a large cap hit so he may go for a lower price

I’d take Graves back

Leafs would be all over this, if he were this cheap.

I haven't been watching, but all his stats seem super reasonable. What does his poor play look like?

I know Pits has no 3rd pair to speak of. That doesn't help at all.

He would probably be a bit more expensive, like a second plus a mid round pick. But who knows, maybe a team can get him for that cheap. He hasn't been all that good this year

He has been making really bad pinches, and forcing Letang to take on a more defensive role. And in a recent game Sullivan made him to the third pair temporarily, so that shows that even the coach thinks he has been bad. As for the third pair, they haven't been all that bad, and Ludvig brings a lot of physicality to the table, which PIT needs badly

Devils will take him back

Fair. I just don't think the grass is always greener. For example, Leaf fans always pick 1 dman and just roast him until he is out of town. Then they pick a new guy. Even the best of the best get roasted by guys like McDavid from time to time.

I doubt they can get a better player than Graves at 4.5m cap hit.

All underlying metrics I can see for Pittsburgh, tell me that they should be a playoff team. I know they are out of it right now, but I would not be surprised if they keep creeping up and into the playoffs.

If they can fix their defensive depth issues and if they can add one more high end offensive guy, I think this team can cause some fits in the playoffs.

I haven’t been watching a ton of Penguins hockey, so I’m not the most qualified to answer this, but a quick peek into his analytics show that while he’s on the ice, the Penguins get slightly less shots (relative to when he’s not on the ice and relative to the opponents), but the expected goals are pretty average (relative to when he’s not on the ice and relative to opponents). His G/60 and A/60 are both down, and the majority of his assists are secondary assists. It appears that he hasn’t been driving offensive play as well.

If you compare his analytics to years prior, with little eye test, the takeaway is that his defensive game is similar to years past, and team relative it is slightly better. However, his offensive production has fallen off, despite being given more minutes than last year.

I think a dip in production is reasonable. They have Letang and Karlsson on the right side. So his job is to just get it to them and sit back and relax.

Thanks for the analysis! Based on that, I would not be worried about Graves.

If Pits can fix their PP (which makes no sense as to why it's bad), they will make some nice waves this year.

Unfortunately I don't see the Sabres buying on defensemen until the season goes up in Flames.

I think all of this is true. If Graves can start to find his groove, it would definitely help on the defensive side of things. But I think even if he doesn't, they can still find their way into the playoffs

If I had to guess, he's made "The Big Mistake" a couple times when we expected him to be prime Dumoulin and OP isn't a fan. He's not the defensive rockstar I (and probably a lot of Pens fans) hoped for, but he's been a solid player overall.
I think trading Graves makes the Pens' LHD pretty inexperienced and puts pressure on Ludvig to suddenly perform at a top 4 caliber after only 6 NHL games. I don't think the reward is worth the risk.

All good insights. I think Graves can be solid, but he just needs to find his game. If he can't, that contract would look pretty bad, so at that point it may be reasonable to trade him. At this point, they should try to let him find his game and if he continues to play poorly, then ship him out

Yeah I’ve watched all of the games, and he makes some pretty horrid turnovers when no ones back and such, that lead to grade A scoring chances. And its consistent enough for me to start to worry when he’s got the puck.

I would not trade Graves. I think he's a good defenseman and just struggling to adjust to the system. It seems like a lot of stay at home D struggle to adjust to it and it typically takes longer for D to adjust anyways. I 100% think we need significant upgrades to the bottom 6 (basically a complete retool besides Eller and Zohorna), but Graves wouldn't be the one I would trade to free up cap space.