COL isn’t paying a premium to help TOR with the cap especially with their 3rd line just killing it.

CBJ trade logic makes no sense. Hey let’s get rid of a 30 year center… to make room for another 30 year old center?
Yeah I get that Lindholm is better but it does nothing to actually help the rebuild along.

Well first off, Jarnkrok is outproducing everyone on your 3rd line both offensively and defensively. You paid a 2nd for Colton and resigned him at 4 x 4, Jarnkrok has 3 years left at $2.1, which is great value. You also just paid a 2nd for Ellers with retention as a rental, who was a worse player then and now and walked immediately after. He was even more expensive than Jarnkrok is now after the retention.

Regardless, it's the 2nd line you should be worried about. Replacing Drouin with Jarnkrok for a swap of a late 2nd and 5th round pick should be an easy yes for you guys, as he improves that line offensively and defensively and will remain a cost effective option for a cap strapped team. I purposely made sure this helped both teams and asked less than what Jarnkrok is worth to avoid this argument, you're just too blind to see it. We're able to trade Jarnkrok to improve our D because of our offensive depth; our 3rd line is producing above yours as is and our top 6 is way outproducing yours. Your defense is much better however, so each team would be addressing needs.

You're just being defensive rather than seeing the logic in this for your team.

Yes, it's my logic that makes no sense. One is a free asset who as you've stated already is a better player, and is actually 28 rather than 30. The other can garner you assets as he's being replaced with a better center. So, if I understand your logic, signing a younger, better center who has proven chemistry with Gaudreau, while also bringing in a 1st, a 3rd, a potential top 6 prospect in Hirvonen and another NHL center, does not help your rebuild as much as keeping 30 year old Jenner as his value decreases and he eventually walks for nothing?

Option 1: 30 year old Jenner

Option 2: 28 year old Elias Lindholm (scored 40 goals and placed 2nd in Selke voting 2 years ago with Gaudreau on his wing), 1st round pick, 3rd round pick, Hirvonen (among the top players at the world juniors and captain of the Finnish team), Holmberg (24 year old RFA making league min who is already capable of playing center on your team)

According to my logic option 2 is better for your rebuild, makes no sense for sure...

Did everyone not just see Zadorov go for two middle round picks to a division rival? No way you're getting 2nd round picks for marginal pieces like Jarnkrok and Brodie.

Therefore you likely don't have the assets to make the other trades in this scenario.

Eller, Namestikov, Brown all went for seconds in the last year, while being more expensive with less years remaining. Jarnkrok has similar value, and adding a 5th to his very cost effective contract only helps that. Zadorov was a bottom pair D being paid like a top 4 at 3.75 mil, who requested a trade and had obviously become a distraction. Brodie at 50% retained (2.5 mil) would be a top 4 D being paid like a bottom pair guy. So that's a 2nd and a 5th vs a 3rd and a 5th for Zadorov, who likely would have required an additional 5th if he were retained as brodie would be. The difference is negligible, and most people acknowledge that CGY could have done better.

The values are debatable as always, but the fact that your issue was with the return to the Leafs, rather than the considerably more value going the other way shows your true intentions. So Janrkrok with 3 years remaining at 2.1 mil and Brodie as a 2.5 mil rental are not worth 2 late 2nds, but Larsson at 2 x 4 mil for two seconds and Liljegren, and Jenner at 3 x 3.75 mil + Peeke at 3 x 2.75 for a 1st, a 3rd, Hirvonen and Holmberg you have no issue with.

Alright!

Intentions... LOL. I'm actually a neutral party here with no bone to pick in this fight but I did say why I didn't comment on the other two trades because I said you wouldn't have the assets to complete those trades without the others... but....

If you want my opinion on the other trades I think that's way too much to give up for Larsson and giving up a the same picks as the Zadorov (who is a much better player) trade is another huge overpay for a guy that has 34 points in over 200 NHL games and only in the last 2 years has become a full time NHLer.

Yes, intentions... It's not as if you're here to share your own threads, so what is your purpose beyond criticizing? Yes, I agree it's an overpay for the Leafs and that was done purposely to avoid the perception of bias and silly arguments like this. So, if you had been fair from the get go, we could have come to the conclusion that maybe I'm asking too much for our players, but I'm giving up way too much for the players I'm acquiring. Which means the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, making you're claim that we wouldn't have the assets a bit disingenuous.

So, let's frame it a different way; would the Leafs be able to turn Brodie at 50% retained, Jarnkrok, a 1st, two 3rds, two 5ths, Liljegren, Hirvonen and Holmberg into Peeke, Jenner, Larsson and Seeler without retention? I would argue yes, and that is the point.

And also, using points to evaluate one of the best DFD in the game is an interesting angle, but I digress...

I watched Chris Tanev on my favorite team for 10 years. I think I have a fairly good idea what his play style is like. Sorry I didn't sum up his entire career in a couple sentences. But here... Tanev is a top 4 dman and a pure warrior but he's also 34 in a few weeks, pure rental, and offers little value beyond his own end along with being injury prone. When he's healthy he's a huge addition to any team if you have offensive dman to compliment him like say for example a Quinn Hughes, Weegar or Hanafin. There is that better?

For the record I don't just criticize here I just give my opinion. I do compliment people on here when they think outside the box or put up a trade I think would actually happen. Clearly we have a difference of opinion and that's ok because no one benefits from sitting in their own echo chamber with only their opinion. Last thing... I'll use the form how I want, thanks.

I never mentioned Tanev, but I agree with your assessment of him. I don't mean to be hateful, but I think it's unfair to single out the return to the Leafs without acknowledging what we're giving up. My whole goal is to improve the roster without trying to skimp on assets, and sometimes the balance is hard. I appreciate constructive criticism and feedback, but the way you framed it makes it natural to be defensive IMO. Your takes are not unreasonable, so I'm hopeful I can get your honest opinion on whether you think the assets we'd be sending out could bring back the assets we're acquiring. The echo chamber is what I'm trying to avoid, and I welcome thoughtful opinions so long as they're conversational.

Has Peeke been hurt this season? He has played 4 games and is listed as 4th on the depth chart for RD. How does that make him a top pairing RD on the leafs?

He’s not a top pairing D and you’ll regret putting him there. But it’s also kind of deceiving that he’s fourth in Columbus’s depth chart. He got leapfrogged by the team’s top prospect (Jiricek), he’s not playing over Severson, and he and Gudbranson bring the same skillset but Gudbranson is six years older, meaner on the ice, and wears a letter so Peeke isn’t starting over him. Right now, Boqvist is playing over him because the open slot is with Werenski while Severson is hurt, and Peeke can’t handle top pair minutes and Boqvist can (and also Boqvist can QB a PP). If Jiricek hadn’t taken his starting spot, Peeke would be 2RD on the team. None of that is Peeke’s fault. He’s an NHL defenseman, just doesn’t have a spot in Columbus because circumstances.

A bit of a risk no doubt, but Rielly has shown that he pairs best with players like Peeke come playoff time. CBJ's backend currently consists of two 8th overall defensemen on the top pair, 7th and 6th overall defensemen on the 2nd pair, and 13th and 3rd overall selections on the bottom pair. Peeke was essentially tied for the team lead in TOI and defensive zone starts last year with Gavrikov, who's stats were very comparable despite Peeke only being 24 years old (Gavrikov went on to be an important piece for a strong defensive team in LA). He brings the physicality, size and defensive acumen that best compliments a player like Rielly, and showed well when paired with a similar player in Werenski. He has good mobility and puck moving ability, and is ahead of where Lyubushkin and Schenn were at this stage in their careers. He also has the pedigree of being an early 2nd rounder, and would benefit from playing with a better defensive group of skaters in a better defensive structure.

Also, I think Larsson and McCabe would lead the pairings in ATOI come playoffs, and would replicate the defensive shutdown pair we had in Muzzin and Brodie, freeing Peeke from the defensive burden that was placed on him last year.

The pairing of Larsson and McCabe would free up Rielly and to a lesser extent Timmins for more offensive opportunities, with prototypical defensive defensemen to support them, both of whom are not a huge sacrifice as far as puck moving and mobility like I mentioned. Worst case we still have 4 capable top 4 D beyond him in Rielly, Larsson, McCabe and Seeler, with Gio, Benoit and Lagesson as potential depth or 2.3 mil in cap space to add another defenseman if the latter 3 are sent to the minors.

Overall, this D core is bigger, more mobile and better offensively than what we entered the playoffs with last year, and IMO all 4 forward lines have improved since then along with the goaltending. I think this team would be more than capable of winning a cup and would provide us more cost certainty for the future.

Give me a break, should be worried about the 2nd line because they are 2nd in the league in scoring? Maybe you should be less defensive and delve deeper into the facts. Drouin is playing on a new team with all new linemates yet still has more points over the last 5 than Jarnkrok, same with Colton who is killing it and not only has more points in the last 5 but as many as him but tell me again how he is such an upgrade playing more minutes than either of those guys? And do tell me more how your top 6 is way out producing when TML top 6 has a grand total of 9 more points than COL while COL has played a carousel of people on in the top 6 because of injuries. So go ahead and tell me why COL should burn resources in area where they aren’t struggling when they potentially have a problem on the blue line not knowing how long Girard is going to be in the PAP, but tell me all these things about logic when no matter how you split it COL scores more and is a better team. Thanks for those tidbits of clarity.

Let's delve into the facts then. Drouin was a regular scratch on one of the worst teams in the league last year when he played with Montreal. Johansen was a cap dump with retention from another non-playoff team. Tatar was basically the last player available in FA because nobody else wanted him. Just to clarify, you're claiming that 2nd line is better than Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander/Marner? Again, no issue with your 1st or 3rd lines, but anyone with half a brain can see your 2nd line is unsurprisingly atrocious. Please do stick with it though, I'd rather you not be a threat come playoff time, despite the fact you clearly should be.

So now we are going to use how a player was acquired versus how they are actually performing? Johansen has 9 goals where would that put him on the Leafs? 3rd. Sure I’ll gladly admit Tavares Nylander Bertuzzi is better line than RyJo Drouin and Tatar but considering COL is paying the 3 of them less than what TML is paying just Nylander I’m ok with that, and their collective pts/$ is actually significantly better than the TML trio. But hey like I said go ahead and rail how atrocious they have been when COL is the 2nd highest scoring team in the league while missing a top 6 forward. But hey miss what my point is about the trade from the beginning, COL with one injury is rolling Jack Johnson out in their top 4 with Girard in PAP. Would they maybe do the deal at the TDL? Possibly but they aren’t trading one of their few trade assets they are willing to part with for a guy that doesn’t necessarily move the needle in an area they need help with.