I mentioned it on page 1, but i think by next year we could see CBJ being considered a team on the upswing. Could incentivise Petey more than his other realistic options (OTT, MTL, DET, Etc)

What you said is: "a (hopefully) late 1st" which is a scenario that I think the majority of people don't believe is likely as they have entirely too many strong teams ahead of them- which would strike me as the most likely impetus for making a trade such as this one. However, that's a fair counter as I set the tone by engaging with the implication that your assumptions were off-base. However, you're the one who chose to engage in a combative way so I'll stay on that particular "high horse"

Since it seems you think I engaged in bad faith, allow me to reframe the questions earlier:

Could you elaborate on why a package of Johnson (~60pt season next year), Sillinger (what do you think is a reasonable expectation for him?), Boqvist/Mateychuk (would you prefer a package w/ Mateychuk?), and a 1st (let's cut right down the middle and say it ends up ~18 or 19, fair?) wouldn't be acceptable to you as a return for Petey (assuming another season of ~100pts) if he demanded a trade out of VAN? Are you of the mind that it would absolutely have to include Jiricek? To reject such a trade, you'd have to think they could get better from another team, in which case, what's an example of a better package you think VAN could get in such a situation?

For this site sure why not. I think that’s the bar you have to clear. I think my level of delusion is only a half step above reality unlike some others cough cough leafs fans cough cough flyers fans chough. Damn had to clear something out of my throat.

You might have just become my favorite person for a day.

but is CBJ better than NYR, NYI, CAR, NJD? And teams likely fighting for a wildcard spot: BUF, DET, BOS, FLO?

It’s obvious what’s going on here look at his agent. The team had a poor showing last year, he’s in major contract year for the bag and the cap should be going up by a significant amount. This is a ploy to maximize his paycheck for the next 8 years by crushing the organization down with the fear if they lose him they have to do a hard reset for the next 4-5 years and that Vancouver’s FO will need to pull out the checkbook.

I wouldn't touch a Brisson client if I was a GM, no matter who that player is. It makes me pretty damn nervous about Fantilli.

OMG I rest my case.

I am not because Z fired him eventually. I got a feeling that if push comes to shove that Fantilli will probably lean more on expertise from Michigan Alumni. He seems more of the type of guy that takes consensus than 1 person based on his media snippets (and that seems very Italian based decision making too).

Brisson is gonna Brisson ... Granted its summer and we are badly needing our fix so stupid **** like this is our contact high until we start hitting the real good stuff in 4 weeks

For the most part, im not convinced those are options. Dont have the assets to return to vancouver

Well Vancouver seems to be on the hunt for RHD, and CBJs big advantage over 99% of other teams is DJ. I think it's likely he would be that must have piece.

The other prospects I just dont see moving the needle for a team like Vancouver enough to move a player of EP40 who is a top 5 player. The only 2 players in the league that i am certain are better are McDavid and Matthews (there are others you can absolutely argue, but its a range and close enough to not be worth arguing imo).

People who think it was a 1 year breakout arent paying attention to what hes actually been doing. Dont count beans for superstars.

Anyway I dont see KJ as being more than a top 6 option, and frankly he is more likely to end up a winger from what ive seen. While valuable (and needle moving), that is the kind of player you need to move to get a player of EP40 calibre.

If youve ever seen the distribution of talent in the NHL, superstars are worth every penny even over multiple 1st liners due to their massive excess value.

I also think you guys have KJ a vit overvalued in your heads. He isnt on DJ level, he is a level below. That, and petey i think is the crux of our value disagreement.

Late 1sts (19 works fine for me) are worthless. They get thrown around like candy because thats all theyre worth - but teams love to have them.

And I think if we go with the idea that CBJ improves this year, 19 with a player like Petey is perfectly attainable (thats like a 1st round elimination, maybe a lucky break and a 2nd round elimination). I feel thays reasonable

Hmm, fair enough. I think people see Johnson's puck skills and expect a lot from offensively (ala. Zegras) even if such expectations may not be warranted. However, he's a top-5 pick that just scored 40 points as a 20yr old rookie so there's some cause for hype.

I have Jiricek as well ahead of Johnson in terms of value but I can understand how the framing could've suggested I viewed them as a 1-to-1 comparison so I don't think that's where our disagreement lies. I think it's more in how one should value Boqvist (I think highly of him, but his injuries hurt his stock) and how one would value Pettersson relative to Eichel as he'd be the closest recent comparable. I agree that he should be worth more, but how much is the question. Assuming he follows up last year with another 100pt season then probably a decent chunk more.

Worth noting that I'm always told I undervalue the kind of return McDavid would get in hypotheticals I discuss with people so it could also be a difference of how feasible we believe such a trade would be and, therefore, how much of the perceived value gets actualised into real value in any trade.

All trades are different, and if anyone was to get screwed on a deal I'd put Vancouver pretty high up there, but yes Superstars are absolutely worth the pay. I think this is from EW a year ago, and Petey is a 100th percentile player (98 at worst). The two dots that are head and shoulders above everyone else are McDavid and Matthews fwiw


I think Boqvist is at his lowest value point ever right now. He might not be able to return an early 2nd were he traded today (I'm a knights fan, I love AB, but its the truth).

In all honesty as a jackets fan i do think thats what it would take for us to get Pettersson but i dont see us doing that. Putting the value of a large portion of our teams future into 1 player just doesnt make sense after the injury ridden season weve had. And Fantilli is expected to develop into the 1C weve been wanting so it doesnt make sense to give up two of our best young players

I can respect this idea, but i think its misguided. Safe is death and these days you usually need 2 elite centres to be an elite team.
Besides its kind of a boat vs mystery box kind of deal isnt it? Like we are pretty sure Fantili is a boat, but Petey is one - and you need a boat lmao.

Anyway I think that your moves this off season have created the depth required to make big moves like this and you have the assets to run a trade like this. Just my opinion though

No, I mean those are the teams competing with CBJ for a playoff spot

Do you mean this year or next?
Because this year i think a good result would be the 10th to 15th overall pick

Both

I try not to project out more than a year in advance. Things change fast, but i think if (huge if) CBJ can make positive strides this year, then land a player like Petey they could be like LA was last year

And be a team in purgatory?

I think that between 2 elite Cs, what you hope can be a good D core and solid goaltending, and the many other prospects coming up they will propell beyond that.
They are much more likely to get stuck in purgatory without a trade like this than with.

IDK... At least they're younger and have room to improve every year with KJ and Jirieck

I don't see KJ as being a major difference maker. I think he will be good, but EP40 is legitimately great and that is something they need - particularly since they seem to be attempting to accelerate their rebuild (which is kind of key to this)

I feel as though Columbus can keep building, that's going to be the best for them IMO... Even if it's Fantilli, 6 1rst liners and 4 top 2 caliber defensemen with potential... They've just got to keep building