My biggest issue is not the base of the trade but it's Lilly... The Leafs only have 1 RFA by the end of the season and that's Lilly... He's also only 24 and on a dirt cheap contract who can play top 2 minutes in a pinch... And the Leafs are up agaisnt the cap

While true, he'd have to be included. A right side on D of 39 year old Brent Burns, Tony DeAngelo, Jalen Chatfield, and Dylan Coghlan is a major downgrade, and it's much more of a setback than adding Nylander offsets. Brodie's a LHD so that wouldn't work with Rod, so it leaves Klingberg (but they already have 2 guys that do what Klingberg does but better) and Lilly, meaning it would have to include Lilly.

The toronto trade is good.

Not sure how Toronto manages this, they are taking on additional cap space, and the best they can do right now is open the season with a 20 man roster. Carolina would need to include salary retention.

Carolina wouldn't retain because they don't exactly have the space to either, Toronto would need to pay a 3rd team to retain.

Play top 2 minutes in a pinch? Who couldn't even make the playoff roster on what was a subpar defense core already. At 24 there's still room for growth, but the likely outcomes have narrowed quite a bit with him. At best he's probably a complimentary piece to a second pair.

I honestly believe Leafs fans have been so starved of legitimate game changers on the backend that we now massively overrate players like Lily. We literally just watched Luke Schenn perform as our 2nd best defenseman in the playoffs, there's just no excusing that. Muzzin was the glue that made this D core somewhat passable, Pesce is a worthy replacement.

Pesce would fill Brodie's role so a Brodie trade would be likely to follow.

Liljgren isn't getting traded because of his years of control, and he is excellent value at 1.4m
Gee, you haven't offered the Jets much for two years of Ehlers.

Another example of you pulling stuff out of your ass, We just traded away Sandin who was an RFA as well and paid more for less in return with the Muzzin trade, one that also included an RFA defenseman who is more valuable than Liljegren. He is completely replaceable, Muzzin was not. Here's your replacement...

Another comment by someone who little knowledge of the game. In effect Sandin was traded for McCabe....an exchange of 1st rounders.
It's not a good trade for the Leafs at all. While Pesce is better than Liljegren this season, Nylander is far superior to Teravainen...both who are UFAs.

But wouldn't that give the Leafs flexibility? Wouldn't it give them the edge in a Nylander for Pesce deal? Especially if Pesce doesn't want to sign in Carolina

He played with Rielly for a stretch in the RS last year for a while while Brodie was out and he was good... He sort of lost his confidence near the playoffs, prob bc he got scratch in G1 for Holl like you mentioned... But then came back in and was good enough in RD 1 and the start of RD 2

Luke Schenn was our 3rd best defensemen IMO, especially in RD 1 but besides Rielly, the best defensemen the Leafs have had in 20 years was Muzzin

Florida isn’t trading Bennett for Skjei.

That deal is a no from Winnipeg

Why would we trade a good and cheap 3RD for a measly 3rd round pick?

The Jets decline, Ehlers value is higher than what you have offered.

Pesce wants to sign in Carolina, Carolina don't want to give him the term he's asking for.

The improvement of Pesce over Liljegren more than accounts for your perceived difference between Teravainen and Nylander. Saying "far superior" either means you haven't done your homework, or you choose not to value critical parts of the game.

Teravainen had a down year last season by his standards after returning from injury. Healthy however, his career point production has only been slightly lesser than Nylander's. In the 3 years leading up to last season Nylander produced 0.91 PPG and Teravainen 0.86 PPG. Going back any further would not be fair to Willy... Although I'll agree Willy is the better player offensively, he also did this with a lot more talent around him.

The key difference here is that Willy is the worst defensive forward on the Leafs, to the point where we can't put him with Matthews because he's not reliable for top matchups. Teravainen on the other hand is the best winger on his team, and pairing him with Matthews would let us put Marner with Tavares. The fact Teravainen is also cheaper makes this trade a no-brainer for the Leafs, especially after already adding Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg to supplement the offense, as well as a full year of Knies and potential growth from a healthy Robertson.

Not sure what team out there has both the cap space and the need to take on 1 year of a declining, offensive limited, defenseman with a 5 million cap hit.

As a Leafs fan I commend him on putting together a trade that makes sense for both sides instead of homer fans like yourself who have no sense of reality. Pesce is much better than Liljegren and that doesn't even need to be discussed. And no, the gap is not nearly as big between Nylander and Teravainen.

And so does Nylander... Doesn't mean Toronto will budge and same with Carolina

See: Jake Muzzin trade.

How much is Turbo asking for?

With retention: Edmonton

No lol, that pair was awful. That's why we have to keep spending assets on bottom pairing defensemen at the TDL to pair with Rielly.

So Liljegren lost his confidence down the stretch because future him got scratched for game 1 of the playoffs? This is a new one... he posted exactly 0 points in the playoffs, so what exactly was so great about him beyond that?

That pair worked... But they needed more defensemen... I'm sorry, but Jordie Benn as your 2nd pair defensemen is a little bit bigger of an issue...

I meant Lily lost his confidence in the playoffs bc he got scratched in G1

You aren't a Leafs fan and praising a guy who posts a terribly one sided trade is about as troll as you can get. Turbo is a year older and had 37 points last season. Get real. Pesce is better than Liljegren without a doubt. For how long? Hard to say, Pesce is 29 so he won't be getting any better but Liljegren is just 24.

On top of that 40 goal scoring point a game stars are worth more than 2nd pair defenceman.

The number of trolls pretending to be leaf fans is going up by the day. Keep trolling, it's a great use of your time.