[The following comment has been reposted from the Vancouver side of this trade]

I don’t think there’s any way either Vancouver or Minnesota consider this.

On the Vancouver side, they’re giving up the two better players (including Kuzmenko, who specifically chose to sign with Vancouver over anyone else) and receiving two long-term contracts. They’re betting on Boldy developing, but if he plateaus, they’re so screwed.

Minnesota prefers the players with term. The Parise and Suter buyouts have left them crunched, and Petterson’s upcoming contract extension would break their bank.

Overall, it’s not the worst idea I’ve ever seen, but it’s still not going to happen.

VAN decline.

EP is at worst a top 10 center in the game, many have him in the top 5 and he may not have peaked yet. Although MB and JE are great players, I wouldn't trade Pettersson for both of them. Franchise centers are very difficult to find.

Kuzmenko is not better or more valuable than Eriksson Ek or Boldy.

Better than JEE? Yes. Boldy? Probably not. Pretty small sample size though. You could remove him from this deal and the Canucks still decline

Not even a little bit

I get it, you have to be a homer for whatever reason to prop your player up, but it's simply not true. The pecking order is JEE>Boldy>Kuzmenko

JEE>Boldy???

Boldy>Kuz>JEE

What’s with the JEE hype? His numbers are good, but not they good. His analytics are just ok

JEE is the heart and soul of the Wild! Incredible teammate! Will do literally anything to help his team win! He will also probably win several Selkes in his career. Numbers and analytics only tell about half the story about how valuable his is. Add his very team friendly contract into the equation, and it’s not even close when comparing him to Kuzmenko!

The way I can tell this trade is pretty darn close value-wise is because it would be painful for both teams to even consider. I am a huge EP fan and have “traded” for him several times…but I would need days, maybe even weeks to think about this one!

His analytics are just.... ok?

Please tell me you're joking. Because by most defensive metrics JEE is THE best shutdown center in the entire league. Bergeron is gone, he abdicated his throne. And JEE was 2nd behind only him, by analytical numbers.

Sure, players like Pettersson, Hischier, and Matthew's will be the typical guys getting the Selke love and votes. But that stems more for the Selke being extremely biased to players that come from large markets, star power, and their national attention from the overall media. It's for that very reason the considered 2nd best defensive center in the NHL during the 2010's, Mikko Koivu, never finished higher than 3rd in Selke voting. Again... behind only Bergeron.

But defensively speaking, those players may be good, great even, but by the metrics, JEE is better then them all.

Kuzmenko had a nice year, amd is a good player. But I guarantee there's not a GM in the league that trades JEE straight up for him. For the exact same reasons Calgary doesn't trade Lindholm straight up for Kuzmenko. Sure, by metrics, JEE is only a 2nd line center. But his defensive numbers are elite and second to none.

If I'm keeping one of them, I'm keeping the defensively elite shutdown center over the top-six winger.

JEE

EVD GAR: 2.6
Def GAR: 3.8

Better than ok, but not really elite. He’s had better seasons

Pettersson:
EVD GAR: 5.5
Def GAR: 3.8

What model are you using? The GAR and WAR model don’t exactly prove your point

He will not win several selkes because it’s essentially a name value trophy which will likely be handed to Hischier or something even though he doesn’t deserve it. Pettersson is a top 10 center easily, some argue soon to be near top 5. It will take more than this coming back. JEE is great, but nothing in this trade can come close to replacing the massive hole left by Pettersson

This is how I know you’re just a stat watcher Eriksson Ek is better than both.

I like how the conversation turned from Eriksson Ek vs Kuzmenko to Eriksson Ek vs Pettersson.

To be honest, I’m weary of all Vancouver players. There’s a lot of dysfunction there.

Obviously it’s hard to tell with Kuzmenko because he’s played 1 season, but he had a better season than JEE

Right because watching the games makes JEE look SOO much better than the dynamic Pettersson and Kuzmenko 😭

He scored more points* than JEE

There is no more dysfunction, it's been all sorted out. It's hard to get ownership and coaching on the same page sometimes when coming out of a period rot with business mistakes with a different hockey ops group at the helm. I'm not making excuses for anybody, but to align variations in interest in pursuit of the same ultimate goal is not something you can just snap your fingers to make work. Also, PR drama has nothing to do with asset management

Most foolish and ignorant comeback of the year

He didn’t though. He had more points. He’s not the better player

You’re being ignorant. You think Boldy is better than Kuzmenko and Eriksson Ek is worse than both. While I agree with the first part of your statement, I’m telling you Eriksson Ek is a better player than Boldy. He impacts the game at a higher level, which is fine because Boldy is much younger.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/4377944/2023/04/04/nhl-shutdown-centers/%3famp=1

Posted April 4th, this year.

Funny that the article in question is written by Vancouver's own analytical minded Harman Dayal and NOT Dom L.

Per Dayal...

"After running this filter, we get a refined pool of centers over the last three seasons who play top-nine minutes, are trusted enough to defend top forwards on a regular basis, prevent goals against better than league-average and kill penalties. From here, I decided to use Evolving-Hockey’s Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus (RAPM) tool to measure defensive impact and rank our pool of centers.

This RAPM tool can identify the players who have the strongest impact on suppressing quality scoring chances through their expected goals model. Most importantly, this tool can level the playing field by giving us a player’s isolated defensive impact after accounting for variables such as teammate quality (who they share the ice with on shifts), opposition quality, zone starts (some players start in the defensive zone more often than others) and more.

There’s no such thing as a perfect all-in-one tool, and RAPM is no different, but in a world where objectively measuring defensive impact can be challenging, this stands out as a useful data point."

"No.1-5

NHL's Top 5v5 Shutdown Centers (1-5)

1) Patrice Bergeron
Shots Against: 23.8
GA/60: 1.66
RAPM IMPACT ON XGA/60: -0.224

2) Joel Eriksson-Ek
Shots Against: 28
GA/60: 2.01
RAPM IMPACT ON XGA/60: -0.134"

And here's Dayal's thoughts on JEE in the linked article.
  
"Joel Eriksson Ek has quietly emerged as one of the NHL’s premier two-way pivots over the last few seasons. There was a long stretch where the GREEF line with Marcus Foligno and Jordan Greenway (who was dealt at the deadline) on his flanks was arguably the best defensive line in all of hockey. That trio dominated all the underlying numbers and controlled nearly 70 percent of goals scored while surrendering just 1.48 goals against per hour over the last three seasons. Recently, the long rangy center has done a stellar job driving the second line alongside Matt Boldy who’s breaking out, and a resurgent Marcus Johansson. He’s hit a career-high 60 points which is an excellent value when you combine that with his elite defensive impact."


  

No point in arguing as its basically just RAPM vs WAR model at this point

Pretty much. But you asked what model I was using and where I got that info. So the least I could do is provide it.

Technically, it's RAPM filtered through xGA/60. So not just straight RAPM vs WAR.

But I'll admit I prefer Dayal's model to WAR. Wins Above Replacement is fantastic for locking down a player's given value and determining how good they are against the next player along in the totem pole. Which is the entire point of it's data metrics. But doesn't give particularly accurate information in terms of impact, either offensively or defensively. So I'm leery about using it to justify how good someone's is in terms of on-ice impact.

Whereas RAPM impact on xGA/60 does give some measure of how someone impacts the game. Even though it's not fool proof or some concrete measure of how to go about it.

If you you prefer WAR, that's fine too. To each their own. It's analytics, it's all subjective based anyway. There's no right or wrong way to go about it. I just feel certain approaches and methods are better then others. 🤷‍♂️