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Underrated and overrated players

Créé par: BCAPP
Équipe: 2023-24 Équipe personnalisée
Date de création initiale: 4 août 2023
Publié: 4 août 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Re Karlsson: I think he's a hall of famer. He had an epic season last year. Literally a historic season for even strength offense from a defenseman. But people are quick to forget he was good the year before and only okay the year before that. And unlike his Ottawa days when he was unfairly maligned for his below average but fine defensive play, he is really bad defensively now. Given all that and his age, it's as likely as not that we get the good, but not special offensive player of the last few years and terrible defensively as the world beater. If I could sign him for 7 mil for a few years right now I'd do it no question. But given his contract and acquisition cost, I'm not sure Id want to take that gamble. It is super high risk, high reward

Cal Foote: he gets so much love and I'm convinced it's just based on his dad and size. He hasn't done anything to deserve this love. I see people signing him for like 1.5 mil plus. Why? What has he done?

K I know Raymond seems like a hot take. I don't think it is though let me explain. I think he's a great player and a good building block. He shows high end skill. But I've seen people talk about how he is absolutely untouchable. Like wouldn't be included in trades for young superstars. And it MADE sense to me as I assumed he followed up his rookie season with like a 30 g and 60 pt season and no he had sub 20 goals and 40 odd points. He's still a very good young player and they should want to build around him. But that is a sophomore slump. I've seen people valuing him more than say Laine at the same age who was getting 40+ goals. So I hope this isn't a hot take. I'd love to have him. He's great. It just seems the hype is TOO high

I used to be high on Boeser. But at this point he's going off of respect he earned earlier in his career. He's declined for a while and at this point it seems not just a blip. No idea why he declined so young.

Gibson same think as boeser but more extreme. I legit would have argued he was the second best goalie in the league, behind vasi and ahead of Helle at 3 about 4-5 years ago. What the heck happened? He was in his prime? Either way though hes been bad for a while now

Carter Hart is going to piss people off. I still think he has upside. He's under 25 and has been quite good and times. I also get he's been on a ****ty team which can hold him back. But frankly he's had 5 NHL seasons and among them: two good, two okay to poor, and one bad (and it was really bad). His good seasons were his first two

Martin Jones is on GM's not fans. He hasn't had a good season in the last 5. Literally his last good season was 2017/2018. That is 2 years before the pandemic started. Think how long ago that was. Why the hell is he still getting signed, and to above min. He got more last year than raanta got this year. Why?

Underrated
Who is as surprised as I am that over the last three years Toffoli is 13th in points and 8th in goals by a rw? I was genuinely shocked to realize he's been an above average FIRST LINE rw on this contract by production.

Brodie being underrated I blame on three things: (1) dumb Leafs fans who don't understand that defensive does not equal physical. He's a high end defensive defenseman who can play both sides and has consistently made his partner better since he got to the Leafs no matter who it is, (2) Frank Seravelli being an idiot and suggesting for no reason the Leafs could buy him out, making fans of other organizations incorrectly thinking he's bad/a dump, and (3) like 2 bad games in the teams last series.

I'm going to do Devon Toews and Shea Theodore together as its the same thing. They're the "other guy" to a bigger star on a first pair. But they're both legit #1 defenseman who are literally like #12-15 overall defenseman. They're just so overshadowed.

I feel weird that I'm calling Miller underrated as I am generally hard on defensively poor physical forwards like this but he seems to get no love outside of Vancouver and it's bizarre. He's literally a back to back 30 goal scoring point per game player (99 points two years ago), who plays all three forward positions, is quite good in the dot, and really physical. Yes he's flawed defensively but that doesn't make him bad. I don't get his lack of any appreciation
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
683 500 000 $25 425 000 $0 $0 $58 075 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Underrated, Player
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
Overrated, Player
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
Logo de Devils du New Jersey
2 125 000 $2 125 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Sharks de San Jose
10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Foote, Cal
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
5 200 000 $5 200 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Red Wings de Detroit
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 500 000 $$2M)
AD, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
6 650 000 $6 650 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
8 000 000 $8 000 000 $
C, AG, AD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
6 400 000 $6 400 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Flyers de Philadelphie
3 979 000 $3 979 000 $
G
RFA - 1
Jones, Martin
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $

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4 août 2023 à 22 h 46
#51
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Quoting: Juiceman
Out of all the players that put up more points than Miller, only 4 have a lower cap hit. Almost every top scorer is a selfish 1 way player that provides very little defensively


No there is a difference between a 1 way scorer and a selfish 1 way scorer and he's toxic as hell
4 août 2023 à 22 h 47
#52
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Quoting: Juiceman
1 great season points wise?

Did you not read the part where he is top 15 in points over the last 4 years combined? You’re seriously trying to tell me he is a one hit wonder? Get a grip

Only 6 players in the league put up more points than him this season at a lower cap hit. Good luck finding someone to score at his rate at a cheaper contract


There is multiple on the Jets but OK LOL
4 août 2023 à 22 h 47
#53
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
No there is a difference between a 1 way scorer and a selfish 1 way scorer and he's toxic as hell


“Toxic as hell”

That seems like information you got from 2 seconds of research by reading a clickbait fan made article on the internet. You’re either ignorant as hell, or a troll
4 août 2023 à 22 h 48
#54
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
There is multiple on the Jets but OK LOL


I hate to inform you but JT Miller put up more points than anybody on the Jets did this season
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4 août 2023 à 22 h 50
#55
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Quoting: Juiceman
“Toxic as hell”

That seems like information you got from 2 seconds of research by reading a clickbait fan made article on the internet. You’re either ignorant as hell, or a troll


Lol no I've seen him be a spastic maniac on multiple occasions to his own teammates, why does noone want this offensive stud with 0 personality issues when he was shopped around if he's on such a sweetheart deal ?
4 août 2023 à 22 h 51
#56
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Most underrated players in the league: Foegele and Ceci. Everyone on here thinks they're cap dumps yet they're valuable pieces of a contender.
4 août 2023 à 22 h 52
#57
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Quoting: Juiceman
I hate to inform you but JT Miller put up more points than anybody on the Jets did this season


Lol you clearly said "score at his rate at a cheaper contract" that means goals bud pretty sure Scheifele had over 40 KC not far behind, I'd also way rather a healthy Ehlers all make less
5 août 2023 à 0 h 16
#58
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
Pretty cheap? Jeez he had one great season points wise and is way overpaid for his value


1 great season points wise? As the other poster said he's 12th in the league in the last 4 years...
5 août 2023 à 0 h 18
#59
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Quoting: BCAPP
1 great season points wise? As the other poster said he's 12th in the league in the last 4 years...


Inflated by 1 great year... The other 3 he's been under or over ppg by a point or two, how many players are ppg per year
5 août 2023 à 0 h 30
#60
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
Inflated by 1 great year... The other 3 he's been under or over ppg by a point or two, how many players are ppg per year

Using 50 gp minumum
2019/20 20 ppg players Miller was one
2020/21 16 ppg players Miller was not one
2021/22 41 ppg players Miller was one
2022/23 38 ppg players Miller was one

But to show it isn't just the one year
19/20 he was 17 th in scoring
20/21 tied for 40th
21/22 9th
22/23 tied for 27th

So 3 of the 4 years he would be the best scorer on a bunch of teams. The fourth year he was 40th. Still a high end first liner.

I'm not here stating he's some super star. I am saying he doesn't seem to be appreciated for producing like a #1 scoring option, while able to play all three forward positions, play physically, and be good in the dot...
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5 août 2023 à 2 h 3
#61
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Quoting: BCAPP
Using 50 gp minumum
2019/20 20 ppg players Miller was one
2020/21 16 ppg players Miller was not one
2021/22 41 ppg players Miller was one
2022/23 38 ppg players Miller was one

But to show it isn't just the one year
19/20 he was 17 th in scoring
20/21 tied for 40th
21/22 9th
22/23 tied for 27th

So 3 of the 4 years he would be the best scorer on a bunch of teams. The fourth year he was 40th. Still a high end first liner.

I'm not here stating he's some super star. I am saying he doesn't seem to be appreciated for producing like a #1 scoring option, while able to play all three forward positions, play physically, and be good in the dot...


Idk how you think that that doesn't show exactly what I said, one great year I never said the rest were bad. And imo his flaws just outweigh his positives to make 8 million for that duration
5 août 2023 à 3 h 35
#62
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
Idk how you think that that doesn't show exactly what I said, one great year I never said the rest were bad. And imo his flaws just outweigh his positives to make 8 million for that duration


There are 32 teams in the league. Being between 17th and 40th in points means he is a top scorer. 17, 27, and 40, ie the three years ignoring the "1 great year" average out to about 28th. Being the 28the best scorer in the league is being a top scorer. He would be the highest on at least 4 teams in the league. You can dislike other parts of his game but he hasn't just had "1 great season points wise". As I've shown above he's a #1 scoring option. And frankly the going rate for that is higher than 8 million right now.

Note this is all in response to your quote

Quote:
Pretty cheap? Jeez he had one great season points wise
5 août 2023 à 15 h 38
#63
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
Idk how you think that that doesn't show exactly what I said, one great year I never said the rest were bad. And imo his flaws just outweigh his positives to make 8 million for that duration


I’m guessing you aren’t up to date because look at what other players are signing for. Horvat got 8.5 after being a career 50 point player. Good luck getting a point per game player to sign for less than 9 in this market. I’m not sure how bad you think his defense is, but it does not outweigh being one of the most consistent point producers over the last 4 years
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5 août 2023 à 16 h 41
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Quoting: Juiceman
I’m guessing you aren’t up to date because look at what other players are signing for. Horvat got 8.5 after being a career 50 point player. Good luck getting a point per game player to sign for less than 9 in this market. I’m not sure how bad you think his defense is, but it does not outweigh being one of the most consistent point producers over the last 4 years


Its the worst in the entire league from what I've seen, couldn't be worse if he just sat at the oppositions Blueline all game and Horvat is overpaid too it's Lou lamorello FFS what do you expect
5 août 2023 à 17 h 24
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So Raymond is overrated because Wings fans don't want to trade Raymond++ for [insert random UFA winger here]? Am I understanding that right?
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5 août 2023 à 17 h 49
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Quoting: Jets12Kozy
Its the worst in the entire league from what I've seen, couldn't be worse if he just sat at the oppositions Blueline all game and Horvat is overpaid too it's Lou lamorello FFS what do you expect


Worst in the entire league? That’s pretty bold coming from a fan of Scheifele and Connor who are miles worse defensively
5 août 2023 à 19 h 38
#67
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Quoting: HypotheticalImpossibility
So Raymond is overrated because Wings fans don't want to trade Raymond++ for [insert random UFA winger here]? Am I understanding that right?


You are not. It was treating him like he was untouchable. I believe it was 1 for 1 for a high end player. Can't recall who. He's a great young piece but it reminds me of when Montreal fans were talking about kotkaniemi as this untouchable piece. He's really good. But I just feels he's being treated like he's a tier beyond that.

Put another way I feel he is being treated like he's another seider. Seider is a level above in value.
6 août 2023 à 19 h 4
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Quoting: BCAPP
You are not. It was treating him like he was untouchable. I believe it was 1 for 1 for a high end player. Can't recall who. He's a great young piece but it reminds me of when Montreal fans were talking about kotkaniemi as this untouchable piece. He's really good. But I just feels he's being treated like he's a tier beyond that.

Put another way I feel he is being treated like he's another seider. Seider is a level above in value.


Was said high end player in his late 20s, soon to be an UFA wanting a massive raise, or a suspected locker room cancer? Some combination of the three? Does anybody really need to go into why a rebuilding team would rather keep Raymond than anyone fitting the criteria above? Raymond is a very good young player, cost controlled for several years, and plays on a team that needs offensive talent. Why wouldn't he be extremely highly regarded?
 
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