So many Pens think they trade Guentzel without taking any cap back. This unlikely to happen. And these sign and trades rarely happen. Interesting that said this is the best future for the 9th place Pens but how is is the best future for the 8th place Jets? And these sign and trades rarely happen. A seven year contract for Guentzel starting at age 30 shouldn't be done for any team.

If we take cap back it would only be for a young forward in return or a cap relief the other way for them to afford the extension, which would also cost them assets.

Also sign and trades are becoming more prevalent, or at least the idea of trading for a guy on an expiring contract/rental and signing them long term. Ie; CGY/FLA trade, Fiala, Horvat, etc.

Would be best for our future because we are able to recoupe assets for the coming years of when 87-71-58 are done and we can build a better prospect pool and have more draft picks while still competing with the signings of young Bunting, Patches on that prove it deal and etc.

As for the Jets, for a season that looked like and should have been them finishing in the top 3, they double down on that and trade for a star winger and solidify their status of competing.

Can agree on the last part you mentioned though. Maybe that 7 year term is lowered down to 5 and ends meet on that

Not sure if any of those three sign and trades you actually sign and trades. Tkachuk and Fiala were RFAs. Horvat,,,what a disaster for the Isles....giving up two picks and then trying to justify the trade by making a not so good extension.
I agree with what you are trying to do, but for the exact same reasons, the Jets don't do the trade. And these sign and trades rarely happen.
You mentioned the the reason for trading Guentzel just so you would have the cap to sign Guentzel. Well other teams are thinking the same thing. Jets for example would be much better signing a UFA at 5.5m (not a good as Guentzel right now) save cap, and keep those four young assets rather make that trade.
Guentzel's best/most realistic trade value might be at TDL when a true contender wants a very good winger for a playoff run
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Lol jets are not to team to trade 3 first round picks to compete when a impending retool nears lol

As I said in a different thread, I think that Pittsburgh should really consider strongly the idea of trading Guentzel. But I think that you're overstating his value a bit ("a bit" = more than "a little," not as much as "a lot"). Maybe take Lucius or the first out.

That’s why I said “or trading for a guy on an expiring contract/rental and extending them” which is also how we can trade Guentzel, doesn’t have to be a sign and trade as you’re making it out to be.

Horvat is not a disaster for the Isles, sure the goals aren’t there rn but they don’t need to be. He’s winning in the face off, providing them with decent 2 way game and fits well with Barzal and Lee on the first line. Way too early to go calling it a disaster when he’s played just 30 games in New York.

Depends on how the Pens do. If they shop him in the off-season and the value is there that they want I think they’d do it. However if the season goes on and they are competing with Guentzel and are pushing for a playoff spot then you enter a risk element of trading him or not. You may not get as much value because teams know he’s set to be a UFA and will only want him for a few months to make that push. Whereas in the off-season you have all the leverage and if things don’t look how u hoped then u wait till around the deadline. I look at Bertuzzi as an example. If the Wings had traded him prior to the season starting, they probably could’ve gotten more back rather then just the second at the TDL because Boston obviously knows he is set to be a pending UFA and aren’t gonna trade the pieces u would expect because of that.

An impending retool could consist of bringing in a guy like Guentzel whilst they build a new core… also, may I ask where you see 3 first round picks?

I get that idea but for a player of Guentzel’s caliber, it’s not often those hit the market. And when they do, you pay a pretty price. I’d think at the very minimum, we get a first, 2 A+ prospects on return. Fair?

Heinola (1st in 2019) lucius (1st in 2021) 1st in 2023 ( 19th in deep draft) plus a 2nd round pick. I understand that heinola may not be a first in value at the moment but is only 22 years old so late first (26-32 pick isn't that farfetched)

Jets are the last team that can throw those assets for a major guy as there's no guarantee he signs and if he does it just increases the price. Jets are a draft and develop team and don't take shortcuts to success but sacrificing young talent. Jets already have Connor 1st line lw and already should play ehlers top rw so guentzel would be 2nd line. Just not worth the price and not the direction we should go

Jets just can't send out that many good assets for one guy, they're staring down the barrel of a rebuild/tool anyway so should just keep their assets and build from within.

Fair point, though bringing in Guentzel and playing him first line may change PLD’s dilemma and he could end up staying in the Peg long term as well. Just feel like I chose the Jets because this would absolutely get them over the edge and get them into a real contention form for the next few years where they’ve been trying to get to.

Basis idea tho is that we move Guentzel for this sort of asking price. Jets or any other NHL team, this would be the asking price I’d assume.

I think this is pretty accurate for what Guentzel would bring in return

Pld is probably on the outs anyway so there's no point in trying to pay major young assets just to be net neutral (Dubois out, guentzel in). Jets don't have the assets or the ability to get the players to go over the top without sacrificing these futures which could destroy the team if they leave for nothing. Jets just can't trade for these premiere players without either term, rfa or some type of indication of longevity. It just really isn't a good fit as the jets likely retool and trading for guentzel is the complete opposite. Sure they may be better next year but when Dubois, scheifele, wheeler, demelo, guentzel and Hellebuyck all expire and no guarantee they want to stay or want a major pay day it would really set the franchise back.

Not from the jets tho he's a rental 1 year and could want to test fa. Definitely take out heinola in terms of value and that's probably more accurate. Definitely not a trade the jets would do to begin with.

Fair, but with the pool they have and the core they’ve got built down there, could make for a very smooth retool and they can get to that next level they’ve been working to get to. And a move like this would certainly push them over the edge imo.

Guentzel could rather be a part of a retool more-so then he is “added on” to an already needed re-tool of that core. In other words, he could be an addition to that new core if and when Scheifle, Wheeler, etc are moved out and until then they can be very strong contenders and still have some solid prospects in their system

I do too, I look at Fiala as a similar comparable but Guentzel is a step above that. Which is why I’m not sure why people on here have a problem with this type return. Fiala got a first and A+ prospect which leads me to believe and rather know that Guentzel would get us a first and 2 A+ prospects at the very minimum IF he is traded in the *offseason*

Yeah I agree. And also he probably isn't a rental for whoever he's traded too if it happens this summer. Would come with an extension I'd assume and we can even retain for one year. I think minimum he gets a 1st + A+ prospect, but depending on the market could see him getting 2 A+ prospects as well. If we do trade him it should be this offseason because his value will be lower during the year.

See I’m not so sure PLD is on his way out. I really do feel like he could end up staying at Winnipeg, he’s fit in well that system and Bowness utilizes him well. While yes I would agree on that part if Dubois is out then no way Winnipeg goes after Guentzel so you’re right on that part.

And it wouldn’t be seen as a risk for Guentzel assuming he signs an extension right before or after the trade. Assuming it would take place in this off-season NOT as a rental.

Tbh I can't see guentzel for that exact reason. If the jets can keep Dubois we don't need guentzel as our youth need to have a spot of future top 6 minutes. If they trade him we retool and don't need him

Teams aren't trading two A-/+ prospects and a 1st for a 29/30 year old winger, think the expectations should be lowered a bit.

Interesting you mentioned the retention part because I’ve thought about that idea and retaining cap to max out his value would just make the deal even better for us long term. Maybe you turn 2 prospects and a first into an extra second or young forward that could be the difference maker years down the road for us in the trade. I’m sure they will look into that too. Also brings more teams into the sweepstakes assuming those that may want him but are in a cap squeeze for THIS coming season, could afford him NOW retained on his expiring deal and then pay his extension next season when the cap goes up.

See but with bringing PLD back, they are in full competition mode and likely look to finish somewhere close to the top of the Central next year, and would absolutely boost those odds by trading for Guentzel and entering win now mode with Wheeler and Scheifle on expiring contracts. Maybe you get that youth back in those 2 guys while still competing.

Jets or not, the whole emphasis of the trade was that that’s the type of value I think the asking price for Guentz is. While sure maybe the Jets aren’t the best candidate to trade for him, I could see a possibility where they could make it work.

Yeah I agree. I think if we trade him we should just absolutely try and max out the value for the future. He's really the only trade piece we have that could bring us a lot so might as well make the most out of it. Rakell, Petterson could probably bring decent returns as well, but not close to Guentzel.

Yes they are, for a *28 year old goal scoring first line winger in his prime* with a year left of a $5m contract.

Agreed on all. Though there’s no need to enter panic mode and blow it all up and go trading our best deadline acquisition in Rakell, in fact he probably takes on a bigger role from here on out and may even see first line minutes next season.

Pettersson as well, no reason to shop him atm we still want to compete and he’s coming off a strong season where he too likely sees a bigger role next year.

Just when you have the UFA market set the way it is and some of the attractions there it just makes complete sense to shop Guentzel and get the most back for him and add all those assets while you replace him for the cost of cap space and zero assets.