Oh, Toews was already making something of himself on the Island - the Avs are lucky that nobody wanted Nick Leddy, else that's the guy who would've been shipped out.

If the Avs have a chance to get rid of girard they should do it. He’s not even worth his contract

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Alright Brock have a good game tonight! What line are you playing on? 🤣

Yeah I don’t care about the trade, I was just surprised (and annoyed) about the whole Nelson isn’t a 1C discussion going on, what’s so weird about it? Is it OK for you stating opinions about players in ACGMs but not for me? Lol!

It was said in jest. We got incredibly lucky with Toews. Hutton was a guy I looked at coming out of college and though he might run a similar path. How is he looking? I realise he only had a limited showing last year.

You can state whatever opinion you like matey! They're like a**holes, everybody has one! I just find it funny you came to argue about that rather than talk about the trade, and then have the gall to ask why I continued. You'll notice until it got boring I tried to bring it back to discussion of the trade and why it wasn't a good idea but all you want to do is argue about Brock bloody Nelson's status as a 1C lol. You crack me up!

I think he's got a shot to be a late-blooming third pair guy, but that's his absolute ceiling. He's already 27, he's missed some time in the AHL this year, and he's never gonna get confused for Cale Makar on the offensive end. But he's got size (6-4, 214) and he's a steady hand - I wouldn't be shocked if he gets a shot at RD3 next season if the Isles let Scott Mayfield walk this summer.

If you want to talk about the trade- Girard isn’t worth his contract, you can get rid of it and trade a 3rd for a better rental LD. Nelson provides about 5x as much value as Girard

Minus the hyperbole that's fair comment.

You found it boring because you were proven wrong haha, but you’re to proud to admit that and then trying to shove the trade down my throat, something I don’t came in here do discuss at all lol. That’s just weird if anything, the ONLY thing I commented on was your wrong opinions about a player that was part of a really bad trade for Isles and you keep thinking it’s the other way around - because you believe Nelson is a solid 2C.

For the record, I’m the person that said Nelson is a solid 2C. TJ might agree with me there, but those are my words I believe.

Didn’t think a thread about a 2C trade would get so much discussion. Fun morning, thanks!

Nope. Still not proven anything. Never tried to shove the trade down anyone's throat. Never argued it was good for the Isles. Argued it was bad for the Avs. So you've just admitted you paid zero attention to anything in any post other than if it allowed you to rant about Brock Nelson, and you admit you came here not to discuss the trade just to be an ass and argue. Nice one! Now we know the level of mentality you're at!

Avs jump all over that Nelson deal. Theres no way they are going to find a better C option than Nelson for 5M and the other trades address the hole on D by adding McCabe and Seeler so its not like losing Girard is going to ruin the D depth

Not sure about Raddysh but I like every other player you traded for, this is a very strong roster

Well there had to be one of us Avs fans who disagreed. For once it wasn't me lol. I'd say a better option is still Henrique to insulate Newhook and keep Sammy G for starters. Girard is better than McCabe or Seeler (though you could still add them as well if you wanted).

”Still not proven anything” tells me very much about you sir lol.

I would argue you having a problem with me not discussing the trade rather than Nelson is pretty close in trying to ’shove the trade down my throat’.

My bad regarding your POV of the trade, but still, your opinions about Nelson being a 2C surely color your opinion about the trade, no?

I’m not trying to be an a** and argue for the sake of argue, do you want me to shut up and just accept the wrong opinion of yours regarding Nelson? That’s very weird.

Are you arguing that 59pts is? Are you arguing that finishing 38th in scoring by centers last year or 41st over the last 5 years (courtesy of NHL.com) is? I’d argue point production is the single most important factor in determining a #1 c. Heck take the last 2.5 seasons and he is only 31st in scoring. And like I said I’m not knocking the player, I even said NYI isn’t doing the trade, I have serious contention with calling him a 1C which his production has not bore out as pointed out above.

I think Nelson is better than Henrique so it would depend on the trade cost and how much retention the Avs could get. I like both players but would have no problem moving Girard to get the better one as long as they also add a D man to replace Girard

Girard is a completely different type of player than McCabe and Seeler, and Im not so sure hes better either. Girard from 20-21 is definitely better but he hasnt been the same player the past 2 seasons. McCabe is a very strong possession D man and getting him for 2Mx3 is fantastic value. Regardless of whether you like Girard or not I dont think spending $5M on the teams 3rd best LD is a great use of cap space, so ultimately I think he should be moved for a forward anyway

to play devil's advocate: i would argue that being ranked 30th-40th at your position in a 32-team league would very clearly put you in a position to be discussed as a 1C

59 pts in 72 games * . 37 goals , 59 pts is still 1st line production. Finishing is arguably the most valuable skill for forwards

You've done no proving of anything. You could argue that your fellow fan Db1899 has. Even then he has only provided evidence to support his position. You personally proved nothing. You just argued in support. You could have agreed to disagree and still you want to carry on arguing, and as I've said you haven't even offered any evidence, your fellow fan has, so yes it appears you want to argue for the sake of it. The point I'm making is you came here to argue about Nelson, not the trade. That's your prerogative but if you decide to do so then don't be surprised that people who came here to discuss the trades, (which is kind of the point), try to discuss the trades. If the fact you don't want to and the people who came here to do the very thing that it's here for want to, then don't get antsy and think people are trying to shove it down your throat. As for whether my opinions colour my view, not as much as do the other points I made, which you and your fellow fan have so succinctly ignored!

The last part I can certainly agree, if they can't do a deal like one for Henrique (and it isn't a question of Henrique being better but more better suited for the need as I envisage it but that's a whole other discussion) it likely needs to be for a forward. That said if they can do a deal like the Henrique one, Girard could then potentially be used for re-stocking the cupboard which is pretty bare.

I dont think positional ranking is the best way to determine if a player is 1C caliber anyway

It should be based on how good the player is, not based on how many 1C positions are available - just because there are 32 teams doesnt mean its impossible to have more than 32 players in the world who are capable of succeeding in that 1C role.

I think Girard is one of the more interesting players in the league. A lot of his fancy stats have fallen off in the past two seasons. Some of the bigger public guys like JFresh have attributed a lot of that to him playing with boat anchors like Jack Johnson all last season. I think you can also have a discussion about how having defenseman like Makar and Toews impact his role/metrics.

Eye test wise though, Girard has been up and down. You see him make some mistakes or you see him be super defensively solid when matched up on McDavid. The up and down is really odd.

As for the role on the Avs: I’ve said from the start that I see Manson’s contract being a bigger issue than Girard’s down the road.

Retracted.

oh yeah, you obviously have situations like Crosby/Malkin where the "2C" would clearly be a 1C on most of the rest of the teams in the league, same with McDavid/Draisatl, Stamkos/Point, or even as much as it pains me, Matthews/Tavares.

But I do think it's fair to say that if you're saying the single most important factor in determining a 1C is point production, and a guy falls in the low-30s in a 32 team league, I think it at least forces the discussion as opposed to just shutting it down (I think there also should be something to be said for Nelson being 12th overall in goals during that same window going back to the beginning of the 2020-21 season!)