Sharks easily decline. Not paying a 4th for a guy that can't even make an injury ridden bad habs team.

Pitlick is currently playing for the Habs what are you talking about? And San Jose’s depth is dog shxt. He’d probably be their 7th best forward and he’s not even very good lol

Why are we so obsessed with PLD. We don't need him now and we really don't need to waste a first round pick to get him, just wait till he's UFA

Don't need him now and may not need him later either. Dach is coming along nicely and we may draft a C in the top 10 this year. Makes Dubois a luxury winger where we already have plenty of prospects.

Edmonton declines. Edmundson's back issues devalue him drastically, and he wasn't worth a 1st to begin with.

1st with Foegele would have been fine if not for Edmundson's health struggles.
Now I agree he isn't worth a 1st by himself and this trade would be on the high end of expected return even with Foegele included.

Montreal is either going to have to take a lesser return without retention now, or keep him for next year in hopes of better health and a higher return.

At this point Foegele has more value than Edmundson.

The minimum price for PLD has been set by Horvat and this isn't close. Extremely easy no for Winnipeg.

Id rather guarantee that we get him. Simply waiting probably means we don’t end up with him at all. Montreal is likely not the only team he will go to, there’s probably a few. The likelihood that that pick becomes as good as him is low.

Saying we don’t need ppg players is pretty wild to me.

You probably said the same about Chiarot.

This is similar to the Horvat return. The 1st is more valuable (Isles likely make the playoffs or come close, putting it in the 15-20’s range, that pick is also top 12 protected) the Florida 1st is likely in the top 12. Farrell is one of the best prospects in the NCAA, and if you really wanted to you could swap him out with Mesar, I’d trade either one of them in this dea. Dvorak is 1 year older than Beauvillier, produces roughly the same numbers and is a centre. And there is a 2nd rounder on top of it. Plus we’re talking about very different situations. Over half of the league would be in on Horvat in free agency, Dubois seemingly has a short list of teams he will re-sigh with after next season, lowering the number of teams that will pursue him.

I said we "may" not need him. We just don't know, but trading for him now is an unnecessary expenditure of assets which may be better used elsewhere.
We could draft or develop a 2C for free. If not, we may still be able to sign PLD as a UFA, again for free.

There is not a scenario where we will not need a 85-90 point centre who can also play wing. That makes it very easy to get creative. You can play either Dubois or Dach at C and if there is an injury we still have two legit high end top 6’s. Play the other at wing and it makes our top 6 incredibly strong while still having the ability to draft another high end player in the top 7 this draft.

We can wait until after we made our first selection to determine whether or not we want to make this deal. We’re likely to be picking anywhere from 5-8 with our first 1st rounder. Probably don’t land a C there. We could draft Smith, and if we do then maybe you don’t make this deal, but I believe Arizona will pick him. We’re more likely to draft Michkov, Benson, Cristall, or Barlow.

I get what you’re saying, but I’m glad our new management team is more aggressive than the last. Bergevin would’ve waited and not landed him just like they didn’t land a high end top 6 C for almost 10 years under his tenure. Go get the guy you want. The assets were giving up are good assets, but it’s unlikely one of them becomes as good as Dubois, and even if they did, we’d have Dubois so at that point who cares.

We can agree to disagree. I personally prefer to be more aggressive.

Barely constable. Farrell isn't needed and Beauviller is much better than Dvorak. So, the 2nd makes up some of the difference of having 2 inferior pieces. Although list of the additional value the 2nd provides is lost by Winnipeg having to wait 3 years for the pick.

Then you're just missing the extra that you would need to compensate Winnipeg for PLD being younger, better and having a full extra year of team control.

So, when you evaluate it objectively, it's just not close.

The 1st rounder could be a little more valuable or way more valuable. Isles could easily make the playoffs after adding Horvat, and if they do they could make a run. That’s a pick in the 20’s vs Florida’s pick that’s likely top 12. At the time of the draft we will know where these picks land so it could change things.

Farrell is not needed? Not sure what that even means, every team needs high end prospects. And hell, if they don’t like Farrell then pick another prospect or a combonation of a couple other prospects. Swap him out for Mesar or Barron. Both Kidney and Roy. I personally like Farrell more than all of them, he’s going to be a steal. We have a plethora of prospects. Beauvillier is a 30 point middle 6/3rd line winger and Dvorak is a 30 point middle 6/third line centre. There value is minimum equal, but I think most would argue Dvorak playing a more prime position makes him more valuable.

This is not including the fact that Horvat would likely have been a target for over half of the league. While Dubois seemingly wants to play in a specific market that is only represented by probably 1/3 of the league. Less teams will trade a haul for Dubois while being uncertain of his plans when he reaches free agency. His agent coming out and saying he wants to play in Montreal is going to scare some teams away. And it seems pretty clear he wants to play in a big market. They would want him to commit to their team and sign an extension before they trade a ton for him.

Farrell is a tiny 4th round pick. He's a long shot to be an AHL regular let alone NHL. All teams have 3 or 4 guys that are long shots. He isn't anywhere close to Raty in value or desirability.

Dvorak is an expensive, unneeded 4C. His position is easy to fill in-house or with a UFA. He's not beating out Lowry as 3C and isn't good enough for the top 6. He has no value to Winnipeg.

There is no "seemingly wants to play in a specific market" with the information we have now. All we know is he wants to max his earnings by getting a UFA contract and as we've seen if a top center comes on the market, he will be in demand.

We've seen with the Horvat deal, that even a pure rental top center has a lot of value. So, if Horvat can get that return for a couple months of team control, there is no logical reason to believe that a better, younger player under contract for a full year before UFA as opposed to a couple months won't return at least the same or quite possibly even more.

Horvat wasn’t a pure rental. Everyone in the business is saying there is a deal behind closed doors and knowing Lou he wouldn’t trade that much for a rental and we likely won’t hear about the extension until August. You can either accept to believe that, or not doesn’t really matter.

As for Dvorak, if he is a 4th line C then Beauvillier is a 4th line wing and still just as valuable if not more.

It doesn’t really matter where Farrell was drafted because prospects trend upward or downward post draft. If that is your argument then we can swap out Farrell for Kidney who is a 2nd rounder just like Ratty.

Right, you'd have to swap out prospects and players for things Winnipeg would want. Say maybe Beck or Roy. Raty was the Islanders top prospect, so just slot in someone similar from Montreal, not low end dime a dozen long shots.

Yes, you can believe in the fantasy that Horvat wasn't a rental. But we have the facts that tell us Vancouver didn't allow anyone to speak to Horvat's agent beforehand and Horvat himself has said he has not talked to the Islanders about an extension. So, that is a complete fantasy. Horvat was traded as a pure rental, there are no if's and or buts about it. It's factual reality.

Anyways, so if it was something like the Florida 23 1st, Beck or Roy or maybe both since Montreal doesn't really have a roster player worth pursuing. This combination of 3 pieces would get you to the minimum of a rental Horvat. Then you'd just need to add enough value to beat or other bidders and to compensate Winnipeg for that full year.

The Horvat trade has made it pretty easy to put together and evaluate comparable deals.

Yeah we could do Beck or Roy. Pretty much the same value as Farrell. They can have an extra 2nd for that year.

As for not talking to Horvat’s agent, even if they had that would be kept hush hush by Lou’s request just like every other deal he’s ever done.

No, it wouldn't be kept quiet. It would be tampering if they tried to talk to Horvat before he was traded and would cost the Islanders dearly. So they wouldn't do it.

He probably asked Vancouver’s GM not to mention that he was indeed in talks with Horvat’s agent. That’s how he operates. Every deal he makes there is no word of contract talks because he makes sure that’s kept quiet, that’s how his deals don’t come out until the end of the summer. It’s how he operates. Plus that was two weeks ago that Canucks GM said no teams have talked to his agent. Once the deal was closer they would’ve given Lou the chance to talk to his agency, that’s just how it works. I highly doubt he paid that price for a pure rental.

This user is on my ignore list but does he not realize that Farrell is actually ranked 2nd best prospect on the Habs and top forward lol?

Ranking here.

Farrell is awesome. I’d rather lose almost any other prospect than Farrell outside of maybe Beck and Hutson.

So? He wasn't worth a 1st either.