If thats the best CHI can get for him, so be it. I wouldn't be ecstatic, but I also wouldn't hate it.

feel like its more likely hes going to colorado but this is an interesting idea

I actually think this is a bit of an overpay and would be proud to have this.

If they're retaining and also taking back a bad contract, I feel like they could probably demand PIT's low 1st. Toews + Retention slot + eating Kapanen = 3 assets to PIT.

No cause even with retention Toews is still an overpay. He only has 5 more points than Kapanen and Kapanen has played 7 less games, but yet would still be making 2.05 million more. Kapanen is also younger. And Toews has a full NMC which means it’s his decision and that means a lack of a bidding war to up his value a little. There is no way Chicago gets anything and would probably have to pay to dump Toews if they didn’t retain. Now Kane on the other hand is a different story.

Deal

I get it. But if Toews keeps slumping offensively like he has been, all the other stuff he does on the ice adds up to a good checking line center. Good checking line centers are great to have but they aren't worth an arm and a leg. So, yeah, they could ask for that, and it is entirely possible they can get a better package from a GM who sees passed the awful roster. But the reality is, they probably won't. A GM's job is to ice the best team at the lowest possible cost, they will use everything they can to pay as little as possible. All I'm saying is, don't be surprised if CHI can't get better than a 2nd for him.



Let's not pretend points are everything, though. Kapanen has an extra year on his deal that PIT would love to get rid of with the cap only slated to go up $1M. Any team with real cup aspirations would LOVE to have Toews as a rental in a checking line role with some offensive upside, over Kapanen's one dimensional offensive play style (that he isn't even that good at) any day of the week. Not to mention, Toews would have a lot more points if CHI had the personel to play with him. CHI's roster is full of bottom 6 forwards, redundancies, and hard workers that lack skill. The best players in the world would be (and are) slumping playing with this roster that was built to tank.

That’s the thing though. He would most definitely play in our bottom 6 too which is full of guys that wouldn’t help him. The fact that you admit that he needs help lowers his value too. I mean if you expect top 6 player return then he should be able to generate offense on his own. I mean guys like Crosby and McDavid have been able to generate offense when playing with the likes of bottom 6 and Ahl players like Dupuis and Simon for Crosby and Zack Kassian for McDavid.

That is the thing though. If you think this return is worthy of a top 6 player, you are sorely mistaken. So, calling this an overpayment is a big old stretch. You might be able to find an underrated gem, or a role player that can hang in a top 6 role if needed, or luck out with good chemistry, at this price, but not acquire a true top 6 forward. Also, Toews is a completely different style and caliber of player than Crosby and McDavid. Making that comparison would be a poor attempt to gain leverage in any negotiations surrounding Toews.

The penguins paid less for Rakell lol. And Rakell had a much better contract, was younger, and didn’t have a full NMC. But, Ok then let’s compare guys like Bergeron and Kopitar. They seem to be able to still generate offense while playing with lesser players. So regardless how you slice it, the point still remains.

Toews is currently outpacing where Rakell's offensive production was when PIT traded for him. Toews contract is actually better than Rakells when you consider the ACTUAL salary cost and not the cap hit. Toews does WAY more on and off the ice outside of offense. Toews has way more experience leading and winning in the NHL than Rakell. Toews is obviously better than Rakell. This trade includes a Kapanen cap dump, a contract that PIT has been largely disappointed with and would rather spend that money elsewhere next season.

Bergeron and Kopitar aren't playing with "lesser players". Bergeron essentially plays with two superstars on his wings and Toews is still only 5 points behind him with the exact same amount of goals. Toews has been keeping up just fine with both of their point totals for 15 years.

So, actually, now that I look at it in this perspective, I'd say he is generating offense just fine and not "slumping" as I said previously. It's just easier for me to get down on CHI's players when I have to watch them every game. But, if he can put up these kinds of point totals with "lesser players" he would do just fine in PIT's bottom 6. So, no, because you based your point on something I said that wasn't even correct, your point is even less valid now. But, good job making me prove both of us wrong.

Barely outproducing Rakell but again has like a 3x worse contract. Actual cost means very little to contending teams. Cap hit is way more important for 2 reasons. 1. Contending teams are typically profitable and spenders and 2. Contending teams are in a cap crunch. Rakell also brings more to the table than just offense too. Also Rakell had a high chance of being re-signed to a reasonable contract. The pens don’t need a leader. They have quite a few of those so leadership isn’t exactly something of value to the pens. Kapanen has been decent since coming back. He’s not really a cap dump. Slightly overpaid, yeah probably.

They aren’t playing with lesser players now but they’ve had to play with lesser players in their careers and that’s the point. Both of those players have largely outscored Toews every year and Toews has had the benefit of playing with Kane every year so let’s not act like he is playing with bums lol.
You’ve done nothing but make excuses for Toews. Chicago should consider themselves lucky if they got this package. I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t get traded for more than this.

His actual cap hit prorated at the deadline is $1.2M. So once again, your point is moot.

Also toews doesn't play with kane.

Also, I never said it wasn't a fair package. I was just disagreeing with you trying to spread the narrative that it would be an overpayment. Did you forget what we were agruing about or something? I'm not the one making excuses here. I am just combating all of your misinformation and invalid assumptions with facts. Also, saying that Bergeron and Koptiar "largely outscored Toews their entire careers" isn't even correct.

Example A: https://www.eliteprospects.com/compare-players/8792-9079/jonathan-toews-vs-patrice-bergeron

Example B: https://www.eliteprospects.com/compare-players/8792-4233/jonathan-toews-vs-anze-kopitar

Luckily, you aren't a GM.

Which the pens don’t have so my point is 100% valid.



So Patrick Kane is no longer a Blackhawk? Hmmm wonder when he got traded.



I never said it was a fair package. Did you forget what we’re arguing about or something. This absolutely is an overpayment and I’d be willing to bet the hawks don’t get more than this for Toews at 50% retained.
Bergeron 412 goals
Kopitar 375 goals
Toews 367 goals
Last time I checked 412>367 and 375>367.
Maybe math has changed since I went to school 🤷‍♂️

You used the words "largely outscored", when most seasons they were all on a very similar pace. If you consider Toews missed AN ENTIRE SEASON WITH CERS and then spent his first season back still recovering, it gives the discrepancy of 8 and 45 goals, respectively, a little more perspective.

Also, if you actually knew anything about CHI's line combinations, Kane and Toews have LARGELY played on separate lines their entire careers in CHI. So, yeah, they mostly don't play together and they play almost completely different styles.

The whole point of including a Kapanen cap dump was to create cap space, if you think he actually has value in this trade, you are mistaken. Add in third party retention, if needed, and PIT would have plenty of space.

So once again your point is invalid. Just stop, man. This is embarassing. If you don't want Toews, just say "I don't want Toews". And that would be more understandable than incessantly spouting nonsense, misinformation, and citing basic statistics without any perspective.

They have largely outscored Toews.
Again so Patrick Kane never played for Chicago? They’ve never been on the same team? That’s news to me.
No the pens wouldn’t have space still lol. Once Petry gets taken off LTIR they will only have like 100-200k in deadline cap space. They aren’t adding it fast because they only can hold 22 players when fully healthy and have less than 100k in cap space.

The only one who has an invalid point in this discussion is you lol. I mean you can’t even stand firm on your points.

Huh?... You insinuated that Toews should have better statistics because of playing with Kane. But if they don't play together on the ice, then their stats aren't effected by one another. You're funny, though. Keep going.

Sure they are. Anyone who actually understands hockey knows that.

Ok, my guy. Move along.