I don't think anyone should ever give up a 1st round pick for a goaltender.

I love Ehlers, but that price is waaaay too rich.

Why?

Plonk is in the trade also and New Jersey is dumping bernier contract on them. That’s why there is a lot

Because goaltenders are too inconsistent from year to year, and can't be relied upon for more than a few seasons. Their play largely depends on the team in front of them, so there's no way to know what you'll be getting when that goaltender actually suits up for your team.

With very few exceptions, quality goaltenders aren't great for more than 3 or 4 seasons throughout their entire careers. Not worth giving up a 1st. The ones that are worth it aren't getting traded.

I mean I agree with you generally, but Hellebuyck is one of those exceptions lol. Even his "worst year" last year was still an above average goalie, and he's right back to his normal elite self this year. I'd argue one of, if not the most consistent goalies in the league

Devils have no need to dump those contracts nor for those players

There's absolutely no way to know that. That's my point. Next season, his play could fall off a cliff and he could suck for the rest of his career. Look at guys like John Gibson, Carey Price, and Sergei Bobrovsky. Thus is the nature of goaltenders.

Wouldn't give up a 1st for a goaltender, ever. Just like I wouldn't draft a goaltender in the 1st round, ever.

Not sure why Ottawa would do that. Both guys are LDs, Brannstrom has been progressing really the last few years and has pretty impressive advanced stats this year. Eye test also confirms that he has been playing really well for the most part. He has to find a way to become more productive but overall, he's already quality at the NHL level



Pionk is also valuable but moot point as it's a lot of cap to take for the Devils



My opinion is that only goalies really understand goalies...

Most of what you are saying makes sense but you're forgetting one thing : ability

Like you said, "their play largely depends on the team in front of them" so there's a limit to what they can do but a goalie with high ability will make things better no matter what, and not just for 3-4 seasons. Hellebuyck is one of these

What can happen though is goalie's play can decline due to injuries. People in general don't consider injuries enough in relation to performance, which is weird because hockey is a highly athletic sport

Also, I kinda agree that you should try to not trade your first for a goalie because they overall should have less value than skaters due to the limited number of jobs to fill.

Again, you have no way to know that.

Guys like Bobrovsky and Price were significantly better than Hellebuyck was at their peak. They were good for a handful of years until they weren't. Then their play fell off a cliff and now you couldn't give them away.

There's too much inconsistency in ANY goaltender's play. I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick for Shesterkin or Vasilevskiy, let alone Hellebuyck.

Bobrovsky is now 34 y/o, he was good to elite between 22 and 30 y/o

Price was among the elite until injuries and other problems ruined him

Hellebuyck has been good to elite for years too, pretty much since he entered the league. This is his 8th season

Great goalies are good for more than the 3-4 seasons you were talking about



That's bat**** crazy but hey you have the right to have your own opinion.

I'm pretty sure that opinion wouldn't be very popular in a poll. Unless a 1st round pick is automatically a 1st overall for you?

It is not. Goaltenders are too dependent on the teams they play for. Ilya Bryzgalov was one of the best goaltenders in the NHL when he played in Arizona for years, then he got traded to Philadelphia and was one of the worst. Same goes with Bobrovsky. He was mediocre in Philadelphia, was the best goaltender in the league in Columbus, only to be bad once he moved to Florida. Gibson was the best goaltender in the NHL playing for a poor Anaheim team for several years, then his play fell back down to Earth over the last few years. Would Shesterkin or Vasilevskiy be as good if they didn't play for the teams they do? I'm not so sure.

If the Kings just won the Cup and had the 32nd overall pick, then I'd consider moving it for a top quality goaltender. If they were a bubble team with a pick in the 15-25 range, I wouldn't do it. Goaltenders are too inconsistent from season to season and there's no way to know which ones will be good and which ones won't, Hellebuyck included.

We already agreed on this but there's also the first point I have made that you're ignoring : ABILITY

I have been a goalie for 30+ years. I can differentiate goalie ability pretty well.

Just an example, but I called Andrew Hammond a "flash in the pan" when everyone was raving about him in 2015

He had that stat line :

20-1-2, 0.941 SV%, 1.79 GAA


Shesterkin and Vasilevskiy have very high end ability


I agree with some of the things but we'll have to disagree on the rest. The 1st round pick would have to be very high and in a very good draft for me to not trade it for Shesterkin or Vasilevskiy for example.

I have also been a goalie for 30+ years, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I played high-end competitive hockey in college and in beer leagues ever since. Hung up the pads for good when the pandemic started.

Jonathan Quick has very high end ability. He's the most athletic goaltender I've ever seen. He only had 4 or 5 really good seasons in the NHL, and he's likely headed to the Hall of Fame when he retires. I'm a Kings fan and Quick is probably my favorite goaltender of all time. I wouldn't have traded a 1st round pick for him.

Hellebuyck has had a couple really good seasons, a few decent seasons, and a couple stinkers. He's not on par with Quick. I wouldn't give up a 1st for him.