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Forums/Armchair-GM

Trade Muzzin for Larsson

Créé par: Janasazi
Équipe: 2022-23 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 21 juill. 2022
Publié: 21 juill. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Leafs have a log-jam on the left hand defense side and Sandin doesn't feel like he has a chance. It makes sense to move Muzzin for a right handed defenseman.

This would also have the additional effect of making Holl expendable
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 600 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
31 750 000 $
22 500 000 $
Transactions
1.
SEA
  1. Muzzin, Jake
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (OTT)
Détails additionnels:
Can include other draft picks or B-level prospect to make it work
2.
TOR
  1. Choix de 6e ronde en 2023 (ARI)
Détails additionnels:
Team doesn't matter
3.
TOR
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (CHI)
Détails additionnels:
Anywhere for a reasonable return
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
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2024
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Logo de TOR
Logo de OTT
2025
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Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2282 500 000 $81 852 283 $212 500 $0 $647 717 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
950 000 $950 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
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11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 3
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 100 000 $2 100 000 $
AD, C, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 4
1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
7 500 000 $7 500 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG/DD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
4 687 500 $4 687 500 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 600 000 $1 600 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de Kraken de Seattle
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 800 000 $1 800 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
800 000 $800 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DD
RFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
796 667 $796 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
900 000 $900 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
750 000 $750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
762 500 $762 500 $
AG
UFA - 2

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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 11
#1
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And inquiring minds ask once again, why would Muzzin waive to Seattle or the other non-playoff teams Leaf ACGMs post daily?
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 11
#2
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There's a reason why Larsson and Muzzin both have NTC's.
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 14
#3
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Seattle has a bigger LHD logjam than Toronto does. Larsson is literally their only top 4 RHD on their roster
21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 16
#4
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
There's a reason why Larsson and Muzzin both have NTC's.


If Tampa was able to move McDonough when he has an NTC, why is it out of the question for Larsson and Muzzin to move with NTC's?

Quoting: tryger
And inquiring minds ask once again, why would Muzzin waive to Seattle or the other non-playoff teams Leaf ACGMs post daily?


People move to non-playoff teams all the time. Plus Seattle's situation isn't so bad. They got Beniers and Wright coming up.
21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 17
#5
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Quoting: The_Rocket
Seattle has a bigger LHD logjam than Toronto does. Larsson is literally their only top 4 RHD on their roster


That's a good point, I didn't really consider that when I made the trade
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 22
#6
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Quoting: Janasazi
If Tampa was able to move McDonough when he has an NTC, why is it out of the question for Larsson and Muzzin to move with NTC's?



People move to non-playoff teams all the time. Plus Seattle's situation isn't so bad. They got Beniers and Wright coming up.


Jake Muzzin is 33, he is exactly where he wants to be to have a final run at a cup. He put a NTC on his contract because he knew the Leafs window would be open.

McDonough was moved because there were teams lined up to take him off waivers. They did him dirty, and their locker room will suffer for it and so has BriseBois legitimacy.

Have a team that is willing to take him off waivers, but McDonough had a far better season than Muzzin did last year.
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 25
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Quoting: Janasazi
If Tampa was able to move McDonough when he has an NTC, why is it out of the question for Larsson and Muzzin to move with NTC's?

People move to non-playoff teams all the time. Plus Seattle's situation isn't so bad. They got Beniers and Wright coming up.


It's not true that players waive their NTCs to go from a contending team to a non-contending team "all the time." I'll bet you can't come up with 3 examples in the last 5 years. Moreover, speaking of bets, if you think that Seattle is going to have a sniff at the playoffs this season or the next, there are a lot of wagers I'd like to place with you.

McDonagh didn't sign his current contract with his current club. Larsson and Muzzin did, when they could have gone anywhere.
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 31
#8
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
It's not true that players waive their NTCs to go from a contending team to a non-contending team "all the time." I'll bet you can't come up with 3 examples in the last 5 years. Moreover, speaking of bets, if you think that Seattle is going to have a sniff at the playoffs this season or the next, there are a lot of wagers I'd like to place with you.

McDonagh didn't sign his current contract with his current club. Larsson and Muzzin did, when they could have gone anywhere.


Okay, you got me, I can't name 3 examples off the top of my head in the last 5 years.

I didn't say Seattle is gonna make the playoffs soon but I think Beniers and Wright are pretty good for them to build around.

So do you think Dubas is stuck keeping Muzzin this year and just move him next year when his NTC becomes a Modified NTC?
21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 32
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Quoting: tryger
Jake Muzzin is 33, he is exactly where he wants to be to have a final run at a cup. He put a NTC on his contract because he knew the Leafs window would be open.

McDonough was moved because there were teams lined up to take him off waivers. They did him dirty, and their locker room will suffer for it and so has BriseBois legitimacy.

Have a team that is willing to take him off waivers, but McDonough had a far better season than Muzzin did last year.


So would you say that Dubas is keeping Muzzin his year and moving him next year when his NTC becomes a Modified NTC?
21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 33
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I love this. I don't think it's possible, but as a fun dream, I dig it.
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 35
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Quoting: Janasazi
So would you say that Dubas is keeping Muzzin his year and moving him next year when his NTC becomes a Modified NTC?


Almost positively, Holl and Kerfoot are easier to move. Sign an RD with the space you allocate, give Sandin enough time so that you can trust him eating 18-20 minutes a night. Move Muzzin next season.
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 49
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Quoting: Janasazi
That's a good point, I didn't really consider that when I made the trade


A commonality in a lot of trades people make with Seattle on here!
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21 juill. 2022 à 14 h 58
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Quoting: Janasazi
So do you think Dubas is stuck keeping Muzzin this year and just move him next year when his NTC becomes a Modified NTC?


No, I'm saying that you've got two problems with any Muzzin trade. (This one has a third -- Larsson's NTC -- but that's not important to this discussion.)
(1) Muzzin's NTC.
(2) Muzzin's value to the other team and its cap space.

The general impression is that Muzzin is an Ontario guy and he probably doesn't want to uproot his family unless he's going to go to a contender for the Stanley Cup. Therefore, although this is speculative, the generally-accepted "wisdom" is that Muzzin isn't likely to waive for a bottom-feeder like Anaheim or Arizona or Chicago or Seattle or similar no-hopers. How he would feel about nearby Buffalo or Detroit or Ottawa is unpredictable.

A player can have different value to different teams, and that difference can vary widely. To Toronto, and to a similar contender needing a solid defender (especially one soft at LD), Muzzin is still quite valuable. (My personal opinion is that it would be a serious mistake for Toronto to trade him away because I don't see how you're going to replace him -- in particular, the LD UFAs left are a pretty sorry lot.) But to a team which isn't getting near the playoffs this year and unlikely to make them in 2024, what's the future benefit of having him on the team? Going from 27 wins to 31? So his value to non-contenders is pretty minor compared to his appeal to the contenders.

To me, the most likely scenario is something like the Mrazek transaction, whereby Toronto moves back in the 2023 draft in return for moving Muzzin. But that presupposes Muzzin proves us all wrong and accepts a trade to a team willing to do that and able to afford his cap hit.
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21 juill. 2022 à 15 h 19
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
No, I'm saying that you've got two problems with any Muzzin trade. (This one has a third -- Larsson's NTC -- but that's not important to this discussion.)
(1) Muzzin's NTC.
(2) Muzzin's value to the other team and its cap space.

The general impression is that Muzzin is an Ontario guy and he probably doesn't want to uproot his family unless he's going to go to a contender for the Stanley Cup. Therefore, although this is speculative, the generally-accepted "wisdom" is that Muzzin isn't likely to waive for a bottom-feeder like Anaheim or Arizona or Chicago or Seattle or similar no-hopers. How he would feel about nearby Buffalo or Detroit or Ottawa is unpredictable.

A player can have different value to different teams, and that difference can vary widely. To Toronto, and to a similar contender needing a solid defender (especially one soft at LD), Muzzin is still quite valuable. (My personal opinion is that it would be a serious mistake for Toronto to trade him away because I don't see how you're going to replace him -- in particular, the LD UFAs left are a pretty sorry lot.) But to a team which isn't getting near the playoffs this year and unlikely to make them in 2024, what's the future benefit of having him on the team? Going from 27 wins to 31? So his value to non-contenders is pretty minor compared to his appeal to the contenders.

To me, the most likely scenario is something like the Mrazek transaction, whereby Toronto moves back in the 2023 draft in return for moving Muzzin. But that presupposes Muzzin proves us all wrong and accepts a trade to a team willing to do that and able to afford his cap hit.


You make a good argument but I think it might be easier to move Muzzin next year without having to do what we did with Mrazek.

Muzzin has the same Modified NTC that Mrazek has (10 team no-trade list)

However, unlike Mrazek who had a dreadful year last year, Muzzin's performance is typically acceptable. So I think it will be do-able to find a trade with the 21 remaining teams in the NHL by adding a draft pick or a prospect as a sweetener to a Muzzin trade.

The reason that getting rid of the Muzzin contract this year is of some importance is that there is a log jam on the LHD side and Sandin doesn't see a spot for himself to play big minutes in the lineup. We could always get rid of Holl but that doesn't automatically solve the Sandin situation since he's not a RHD.
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21 juill. 2022 à 15 h 29
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The anywhere else on Kerfoot will most definately be anywhere else as the Hawks are not giving up what they hope/expect will be a low 30's pick.
 
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