I don't really understand why is MTL even part of this exchange.

Best return for CHI is to trade Toews half retained to Pens for Zucker and first, should it come to that, and then deal Zucker half retained to somewhere else.

CHI only compromises in Toews' value here by taking MTL in this deal.

Simple the extra 2.6125m is why
It takes Toews from the concensus 2nd/3rd round pick people on here are giving Toews at 50% RS given his sharp decline in play outside his Faceoff Skills

This is how CHI can make it a 1st and have the ability to trade off Hoffman for an additional pick next TDL
Toews at 5.25m given his play isnt something any contender would be interested in even in the cases of long shots like PIT that's still true

Take his cap down to match his play and suddenly teams care again

That is unless you're insisting Toews playing to the value of 5.25m is still possible.
Then i have to challenge you there and ask for comparables to support this theory
His Value lies in CHI ability to get his Cap down
Like Corey Perry his Career isnt done, his role has just changed as has is worth
Doesnt mean at the right cap teams wont pay

Duncan Keith got a 2nd and jones based on pedigree alone. Toews is 4 years younger and hasn't declined as much as Keith. He can do a lot more than just win faceoffs. He's still a really good defensive center. Plus toews nmc prevents any possible trades to Montreal.

Montreal’s not gonna be good enough by 2024 to trade away what will probably be a top 15 pick. Pittsburgh is still going for it and will be in two years cause Sid’s under contract. I’d rather play it safe and keep my own pick and control my own destiny.

Technically that final $2,612M isn't needed for Pens as Zucker's full contract is abouth the same as half of Toews' one. And I could bet pretty much anything on Pens moving a first if it gives them opportunity to upgrade from Zucker to Toews.

Toews may have declined but to get .5ppg on a very poor team after missing the entirety of the season before with a debilitating illness says a lot.

The guys still has plenty to offer and any team he plays for including ours are lucky to have him.

As for trade value I think Pens would just make the move themselves if Toews gave the OK on a move.

Your arument is for a straight up swap not a trade
Zucker isnt playing that much worse then Toews
He's been in a bad position like lets say Tatar in VGK
Move him and his play improves

Toews is Declining and like a Staal , Cullen or Stepan has to adjust accordingly relying on his strength in Faceoffs.
Kane and Toews might be a similar age/experience but Kane is no where near as banged up as Toews & it shows when they're on ice.

Argeed a Deal can 100% be done with Toews at 5.25m cap
But none where CHI get more then a 3rd round pick back at that cap even taking Zucker
There's just no value in it especially when this year you can finally RS and flip Zucker for a profit with minimal effort
It further cements that this would only at best be a 1 for 1 if Toews was at 5.2m cap

They arent its for appearances as stated its PIT picks hence me putting PIT and a detailed descripition in the trade.
Its like this fan is full of people who love to comment but struggle with reading

Gee defensive much, Its not about being dumb but they wouldn't be moving for Toews unless Malkin is gone, PIT potentially have a lot of cap coming off their books. Getting a quality 2C in Toews at ~5m to backup Sid is good business and gives them what they want by trying to keep going for it whilst Sid is still dominating.

Saying all this, I don't think Toews ends up at PIT and I don't see MTL giving up a 1st.

Best of luck Billy

PS. Btw, I get what you mean about the cap situation just making comment on the situation not your proposals as such.

Keith at the time of the Trade at 37 was still playing 23+ minutes a night when most D his caliber had long declined in their play not allowing such a thing.
Keith didnt have a sharp decline just a few prime years over 50 pts and the rest of the time 30-40pts with the same steady pace on ice.
After 35 years old that went from 30-40 pts to 15 to 30 pts with a solid 23 minute average still

There's value in that and CHI set it with Kimmo Timmonen who was not as good as Keith and on IR during the trade but got more.
Why is that ?
D who can play 22+ minutes will ALWAYS be worth the most on the trade market over every other position when facing players of similar skill.
Why? You can name 2 dozen Toews types in the NHL today and more then that who've retired cause they didnt want to evolve their games.
But Keith is one of those rare guys who could play 23-27 minutes a night without issue well into his 30s which i cant name a single example of in the NHL today and few in the past.

Cant say that about Toews play
He's been on the market for 3 summers now with no bite's
I mean i doubt if Toews joins a non playoff team they suddenly go to a WCF but Keith Did
Toews went from a 50pt+ player with 20 minute average to a 30+pt player with 17 minute average after Keith left
I dont expect that to improve without a team who has a D who can provide that level of support like a Letang can(and yes he'll resign )

Nope just dont like people who comment without reading
Want to debate in Context after you considered the build im your guy
But if you just jump post to post skimming a bit without grasping any i'll put you in your place period.

I love how even after confronted with jokes about your inability to read you choose not to read the post a 2nd time . . .

MTL isnt giving up a 1st its a visual aid and clearly marked
No word of a lie my Landlord is from Malawai,Africa and English is his 4th language.
I ask him to read my post and asked him "does this make sense"
He doesnt even get hockey and he understood my answer.

His response "The ****ing guy didnt even read it the 2nd time " hahahaha

Then you will be equally put back in your place too.

Just because I made comment about the scenario doesn't detest from the fact that it was your idea with the players involved. How you worked the cap is creative and understandable but looking at the overall picture of the scenario isn't a basis to dismiss feedback.

If you don't like it, fine but to dismiss the fact that Toews can't get a 1st with 50% retained and PIT saving cap is your prerogative of me being dumb then your minds made up regardless of whats said.

"just because i ignored what you said doesnt mean i didnt understand it" is how i head your conversation start
If you're ignoring the fact initially this is all for the point of RS that extra 50% you cant BS your way into saying its a different POV
You literally showed up and seen the context of the entire post differently then got offended like a Muslim walking into a Baptist church and seeing a picture depicted of God
Why use such a polarizing example?
To underline the severity in how you carry yourself as you completely re-wrote the narrative to justify ignorance which both religions above are guilty of.
Its called blind belief and its dangerous

If we were talking about a noraml trade where the goal was 50% of his 10.5m cap like usual you'd be right.
Issue is the Title,Description and trade detail all stated otherwise making the intent CLEAR
The only way you can ignore that is via Ignorance or Choice
Neither allows you to put anyone "in their place"

"If you don't like it, fine but to dismiss the fact that Toews can't get a 1st with 50% retained "
i didnt disagree or agree as i stated you're trying to re-write my post clearly marked out of ignorance.
Your 1st post you were oblvious to it, the 2nd you clued in and tried to explain your logic but it was flawed and clear
The last time though its like your forgot again what the Title,Desciption and Trades itself all state

It kinda reminds me of Nana with Dementia who gets mad at me when i point out she wandered off topic

Im not offended Billy, I take no offence to whats written on a publicly debated Hockey forum and I trust you do the same otherwise we wouldn't have gotten this far along.

Perhaps I've not been clear enough however, your title says to maximise the value of a Toews trade yet I don't see an increase to what I feel his current value is. I could have made it more clear in my first post and I think thats how we've got to where we are.

You clearly want a win here though, so I will leave it be.

All the best Billy.

I disagree with your valuation. Toews, despite being banged up, is still considered a top6 forward in the league with massive amount of winning experience and good defensive abilities. Plus GMs love guys like him - he's like Anderson when it comes to mentality and leadership with the difference that he can actually back it up by his resume.

If Tomas Plekanec was able to land a 2nd+, Toews will easily get that too, and likely more after that retention while also taking a cap dump in Zucker.

Where does it say the PIT pick is transferring to Chicago? All it says is “Montreal has 2 options, keep the late 2024 first giving up the 2023 second, or dump Hoffman to take one year of zucker”, to which I pointed out that Montreal’s 2024 first, which you have going to Chicago in this trade, will not be late.

"MTL has 2 options:
Keep the late 2024 1st giving up early 2023 2nd
or Move Hoffman to take Zucker(1yr less term)"

How does this work out exactly?

There is quite the difference between a possible lottery pick in 2024 and an early 2nd in 2023. Unless, I missed something, somewhere?